I think you're right. The only thing keeping the Monday "comedies" if you can call some of them that, higher on the list is the fact that they're dirt cheap to produce and the CW has nothing else in terms of comedies. I'd still say Supernaturl has dibs over the new stuff though, but overall its not that important. In fact, in pretty replaceable if you ask me. I could've seen the CW only going with a half season's worth of episodes had Gilmore Girls been renewed and led into Gossip Girls with 2 reality shows on Wednesday and Reaper getting the post-Smallville slot. Not saying that's right, but it could've easily happened.

quote:

Originally posted by Obveeus:
I find it extremely humorous that this thread was filled early on with claims that the writer was biased in favor of CW shows and now the thread is filled with claims that the writer is biased against a CW show.

Fact is Supernatural is at the very, very bottom of returning shows that made the Fall schedule. Nothing worse got a full renewal and immediate placement on the Fall schedule. Only One Tree Hill performed worse and got any renewal at all for the scripted shows. The article wasn't being 'unfair' to Supernatural by calling it's ratings mediocre. If anything, the article was being overly kind in its praise for the show. If anyone should complain, it should be the Smallville fans. The ratings are still mediocre in a network TV sense, but in CW terms, Smallville is a highlight on their schedule.

When it all comes down to it, no one can rule out the CW yet. A few weeks or months of word spreading COULD aid the new lineup. I wouldn't put a specific timeline on it, but if by winter the ratings for at least 1 or 2 of the new shows have not perked up beyond their premiere numbers I would see a legitimate cause for concern. But it's not time yet to make a solid call about the state of The CW.

quote:

Originally posted by mrpotato531:
it's not time yet to make a solid call about the state of The CW.

Agreed. Right now, CW is in the transition stage where they have to live beyond the psychotic viewers that have vowed never to watch the network again because (insert 7H, Gg, VM, or Reba) got cancelled.

Reba and 7th Heaven fans are not that shallow. Most are older and in the case of 7th Heaven, realized it was time for it to go (hence the reason viewers were leaving the last 3 seasons). Reba was a joke, but I didn't hear any fans that weren't going to watch another show because of the cancellation. The CW suffered because of that stupid move. Same with Gilmore Girls. Most of those fans were sick of the poor creative direction it was taking. Only the rabid VM cult following was truley upset and I'd say even they are going to check out some of the new stuff, if only to bash it. Its the OTH fans that are angry at Gossip Girl for taking its timeslot and pushing OTH to midseason. Many of the 7th Heaven fans were looking forward to Life is Wild, but that show's fate is sealed even before it premieres so why bother?

quote:

Originally posted by Obveeus:

quote:

Originally posted by mrpotato531:
it's not time yet to make a solid call about the state of The CW.

Agreed. Right now, CW is in the transition stage where they have to live beyond the psychotic viewers that have vowed never to watch the network again because (insert 7H, Gg, VM, or Reba) got cancelled.

This is a correct analysis. If some moves need to be made, it can happen during the slow months in December and in early January before Idol returns and screws everything up.

quote:

Originally posted by mrpotato531:
When it all comes down to it, no one can rule out the CW yet. A few weeks or months of word spreading COULD aid the new lineup. I wouldn't put a specific timeline on it, but if by winter the ratings for at least 1 or 2 of the new shows have not perked up beyond their premiere numbers I would see a legitimate cause for concern. But it's not time yet to make a solid call about the state of The CW.

I don't understand why people rip on Dawn Ostroff all the time. She developed 3 series for the season which are critically acclaimed and well liked. The scheduling was solid. GG was at least on paper a perfect fit out of ANTP. AIA extremely compatible with EHC and Reaper could have took advantage of high male 18-34 numbers for BATG had that show not tanked this season. She aggressively promoted all the new fall shows. There was no way for Dawn Ostroff to know that GG won't click with the audience or BATG would tank in ratings. I think she did the best job she could with the resources she had.

CW needs to somehow bring the attention of general public to itself. The ad campaigns are not working so they need to try bringing very envelope pushing shows that will generate some controversy. Maybe syndicate a few racy episodes of South Park (if they do that Christians and the Muslims alone will give the CW more publicity in 1 week than it has gotten in 2 years) Push the limits of what is allowed on Network tv, just somehow generate some noise even if it is negative, to get themselves noticed.

Good shows may have been developed this year, but marketing of them was pathetic. She needs to realize that they have to get their name out to other folks and that by not being competitive this past summer, they only lost more viewers. Plus, she has done such a pathetic job when she was at UPN and last year that she probably shouldn't even be there right now. Its unfortunate this group of CW shows didn't debut on either the old UPN or the WB, when people were actually watching the netlets.

quote:

Originally posted by mushu_jj:
Good shows may have been developed this year, but marketing of them was pathetic.

So, how would you have marketed them better?

quote:

She needs to realize that they have to get their name out to other folks and that by not being competitive this past summer, they only lost more viewers.

So, you believe that if they had spent more money over the summer they would now have higher rated shows? And, you believe that it is Dawn's choice as to what the total budget for the network is?

quote:

Plus, she has done such a pathetic job when she was at UPN and last year that she probably shouldn't even be there right now.

Are you under the belief that WB did substanitively better than UPN? Seriously? How long can you keep holding on to that misguided belief? Over the final three years of their existance, UPN got better ratings than WB.

Dawn picks up shows w/potential (EHC, AIA, Reaper), but poor at developing them into hits and marketing them. EHC should be a break out considering how well it started. Instead, it is languishing now. Dawn did a poor job in UPN in creating a true brand identity. Aside from ANTM and wrestling, what were her true successes? She also seems to make poor decisions not based on true creative consideration. She did not pick up Aquaman because she did not like it. She admitted to never really watching Everwood and knowing anything about the show. She did not pick up Reba because it was not a favorite of hers, despite the fact it received better ratings than any show The CW actually tried to market.

Yes, The WB may have had lower ratings in their last three years, but they had a clear brand and identity. They were growing with their audiences. Even a failed show like Jack and Bobby ranked high on high-income viewers. Just even look at those old 1998 WB ads to 2007 CW ads. They just do not compare. The CW is skewing too young, viewers who are either watching Disney Channel or teens who are viewing NBC and ABC shows (i.e. Heroes, The Office, Grey's Anatomy).

The CW rarely advertises on other networks besides the CW. Plus, by not programming anything worthwhile to watch in the summer, viewers fled to cable and now some of them aren't coming back. As for the WB vs. UPN, the ratings were equal in the final 3 years. You know that and I wasn't talking about the pathetic final season of the WB- I was talking about it at its peak. Still, even if the two nets were seperate I believe the ratings for both would still be higher than the CW's today. You, being the only Girlfriends viewer on this board should know that first hand. Had it remained on UPN, there wouldn't have been the viewer erosion. The same can be said for almost every other program that was carried over.

quote:

Originally posted by Obveeus:

quote:

Originally posted by mushu_jj:
Good shows may have been developed this year, but marketing of them was pathetic.

So, how would you have marketed them better?

quote:

She needs to realize that they have to get their name out to other folks and that by not being competitive this past summer, they only lost more viewers.

So, you believe that if they had spent more money over the summer they would now have higher rated shows? And, you believe that it is Dawn's choice as to what the total budget for the network is?

quote:

Plus, she has done such a pathetic job when she was at UPN and last year that she probably shouldn't even be there right now.

Are you under the belief that WB did substanitively better than UPN? Seriously? How long can you keep holding on to that misguided belief? Over the final three years of their existance, UPN got better ratings than WB.

You hit the nail on the head, but it was youth-obsessed Moonves who hated Reba. Dawn did get Chris into a hit for one year, but pathetic scheduling cost all the success in season two. There is still no reason as to why Veronica Mars and One Tree Hill were picked up over the much more successful Everwood, and even if the Aquaman pilot stunk, it could've been revamped and would've had a built in audience (ala Private Practice) waiting for it to debut. Instead she picked up two of the worst dramas of last year in Hidden Palms and Runaway. Oh and those promos on the WB still top anything any network's aired since 1998.

quote:

Originally posted by DVR_user:
Dawn picks up shows w/potential (EHC, AIA, Reaper), but poor at developing them into hits and marketing them. EHC should be a break out considering how well it started. Instead, it is languishing now. Dawn did a poor job in UPN in creating a true brand identity. Aside from ANTM and wrestling, what were her true successes? She also seems to make poor decisions not based on true creative consideration. She did not pick up Aquaman because she did not like it. She admitted to never really watching Everwood and knowing anything about the show. She did not pick up Reba because it was not a favorite of hers, despite the fact it received better ratings than any show The CW actually tried to market.

Yes, The WB may have had lower ratings in their last three years, but they had a clear brand and identity. They were growing with their audiences. Even a failed show like Jack and Bobby ranked high on high-income viewers. Just even look at those old 1998 WB ads to 2007 CW ads. They just do not compare. The CW is skewing too young, viewers who are either watching Disney Channel or teens who are viewing NBC and ABC shows (i.e. Heroes, The Office, Grey's Anatomy).

quote:

Originally posted by mushu_jj:
You hit the nail on the head, but it was youth-obsessed Moonves who hated Reba. Dawn did get Chris into a hit for one year, but pathetic scheduling cost all the success in season two.

Yes, Reba was killed by costs and higher-ups. it had nothing to do with Dawn ostroff. As for the Everybody Hates Chris situation: you are wrong. Pathetic scheduling? The problem was that EHC had already started eroding heavily. Then, when the networks merged, the only realistic thing to do was to move EHC off of Thursday night. Do you really think leaving it in its old timeslot at Smallville's expense would have been better? Clearly, EHC is the show that had to make the transition to a new day.

Moving it to Sunday at 7 for two weeks then to Monday is pathetic scheduling. It should've remained on Sunday where there are no other sitcoms and probably been given a later timeslot (9:30 would've been open for viewer switchover against the pathetic War at Home).

quote:

Originally posted by Obveeus:

quote:

Originally posted by mushu_jj:
You hit the nail on the head, but it was youth-obsessed Moonves who hated Reba. Dawn did get Chris into a hit for one year, but pathetic scheduling cost all the success in season two.

Yes, Reba was killed by costs and higher-ups. it had nothing to do with Dawn ostroff. As for the Everybody Hates Chris situation: you are wrong. Pathetic scheduling? The problem was that EHC had already started eroding heavily. Then, when the networks merged, the only realistic thing to do was to move EHC off of Thursday night. Do you really think leaving it in its old timeslot at Smallville's expense would have been better? Clearly, EHC is the show that had to make the transition to a new day.

quote:

Originally posted by mushu_jj:
The CW rarely advertises on other networks besides the CW. Plus, by not programming anything worthwhile to watch in the summer, viewers fled to cable and now some of them aren't coming back.

All fine complaints as long as you run a network with an infinite budget. Since that isn't the reality, spending has to be done in a controlled manner. So, how many summer programs do you think should have been made and which of the fall series would not be made in your 'better' run network?

quote:

As for the WB vs. UPN, the ratings were equal in the final 3 years.

No. UPN was better in 2 of the final 3 and they tied in the third. So, over the final three years, UPN was the higher rated network.

quote:

You know that and I wasn't talking about the pathetic final season of the WB- I was talking about it at its peak.

A large number of WB fans like to look back at 'ancient history' as a claim that WB was superior to UPN. Still, that would be like saying that NBC is better than CBS because if you look back far enough you can find NBC's 'peak'. the reality for WB is that they were falling apart just like UPN. The only real difference is that UPN had a better start than WB so they fell further by the end.

quote:

Still, even if the two nets were seperate I believe the ratings for both would still be higher than the CW's today.

Is this belief based upon their old shows defying logic/history and somehow maintaining their audience or based upon a belief that the two networks would have developed a bunch of better new shows if they hadn't merged? WB was in freefall at the end. Why do you think the situation would be different if there was no merger to save their remnants?

quote:

You, being the only Girlfriends viewer on this board should know that first hand. Had it remained on UPN, there wouldn't have been the viewer erosion.

Hard to say. The show would still have gotten a year older and it still would have lost one of its main characters. The only plus for staying on UPN was that UPN had a better 'brand identity' than CW's first year, but that particular brand identity doesn't extend beyond a few sitcoms for either network.

I agree w/several of the recent posts. I did not know Moonves was the one who hated Reba. As if he is the expert w/the hip shows on CBS. I do think The CW does have an outlet for other advertising through VH1 and MTV. I often find marathons for ANTM or Beauty and the Geek on those shows. If anything, I would love to see The CW take advantage of its position as the smaller net to develop producers and writers, much like The WB did during its heyday. I just do not know if Dawn has demonstrated patience and ability to recognize that. I mean, yes she picked up Veronica Mars, but there were constant requests for tweeks. I look at a show like Supernatural that is getting network notes that seem to be hurting the show and now that a contestant for ANTM is going to be guest star on Smallville, it's over. Can't TPTB recognize that The CW has pretty categorized viewers. They rarely translate over to other shows.