They BOTH failed, but WB was in worse financial straits, because of poor financial management.
They didn't both fail. UPN was struggling, yes, but it was lights out for The WB when Tribune refused to resign as affiliates. Without the coverage of the Tribune stations, there was no more WB Network. After Tribune notified Barry Meyer of their decision, Meyer met with Moonves to discuss a merger. Moonves could have said no and The WB would have folded and UPN gone on. That's why, although CBS/Paramount and Time Warner are equal partners, CBS/Paramount is "more equal" than TW.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: You know what...the CW has a ton of aging shows it needs to decide what to do with. My initial thought for 7th Heaven was moving it to Sunday at 7 p.m. (a la ABC's Life Goes On) to give the evening some anchor support. But if the ratings continue to dip, I'm not so sure. Personally, I think Gilmore Girls has just lost it creatively.
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLady:
quote:
...the CW’s veteran Gilmore Girls (Viewers: #5, 4.26 million; A18-49: #3t, 2.1/ 5). Given that Gilmore Girls scored a heftier 5.22 million viewers with a 2.3/ 6 on the WB on the year-ago evening, should the CW really be going out of its way to try to renew it?
Marc, are you really saying that you think it's in The CW's best interest to cancel Gilmore Girls, but, based on some of your recent postings, renew 7th Heaven, which just two days ago pulled in a mere 3.1 million viewers and 1.2/3 A18-49 rating? And 7th Heaven didn't have to compete with American Idol.
Plus you're so quick to dismiss Veronica Mars based on last night's ratings (viewers 2.74 million; A18-49 1.2/3), but I'd be willing to wager that VM outperformed 7th Heaven in The CW's target demo of A18-34.
Now, believe me, I'm not defending Veronica Mars. I think it should have been cancelled after the 1st season, but I'd like to hear your justification for suggesting The CW cancel GG and VM, but renew the older, lower rated (A18-34 demo) 7th Heaven.
Just curious.
Marc, do you even WATCH Gilmore Girls? How would you know its lost it "creatively"?
And seriously, give the show a break! Its in its 6th season and Idol is getting 33 million. It hit 4.3 milion last night, up 600,000 viewers from last weeks horrifying 3.7mil. It hit a 2.1 demo, tying for 3rd but your so biased against The CW. And Veronica getting 2.7 million against House #s is actually decent. Not great but House got nearly 28 million viewers. Thats a bigger threat than facing CSI or Greys Anatomy or any other show on TV besides Idol and thats barely down from its numbers before repeats. Give some shows a break! Your so quick to make The CW look bad!
Originally posted by thewbrocks67: but House got nearly 28 million viewers. Thats a bigger threat than facing CSI or Greys Anatomy or any other show on TV besides Idol and thats barely down from its numbers before repeats. Give some shows a break! Your so quick to make The CW look bad!
I think not. Both CSI and GA get those on a weekly basis and more.
Marc, do you even WATCH Gilmore Girls? How would you know its lost it "creatively"?
Well, there have been a ton of posts from people on this board (not to mention critics) who used to be big fans and think that this season (and a lot of last season) is just the pits. Though a lot of people said the first episode back (the one on the same day as the State of the Union) was excellent.
I think a number of old fans might've tuned in last night because of the rumored/hyped Lorelai/Christopher falling out. Maybe when Luke/Lorelai get back together, the show will regain viewers?
It's funny how people who don't even watch certain shows are so quick to bash them and their ratings. Gilmore Girls is not on it's last legs, creatively. If anyone bashing it had bothered to watch the last 2 episodes, they'd know the show is getting back on track and has been really good since the return from break. Veronica has been very good as well. Are their numbers great? No. THey could be better. But not much is gonna do well when it's up against the mammoth Idol and House combination. Seems like this board has become a place to trash certain shows(pretty much everything on the CW, starting at the top).
As for House, I'm a fan but the show is already a hit. I wish Fox had switched House and Bones, to let Bones have a little post Idol ratings boost. That show deserves it.
Posts: 200 | Location: Florida | Registered: 18 December 2006
I think not. Both CSI and GA get those on a weekly basis and more.
When Dancing with the Stars comes back in March, the House/DwtS hour (Tuesday, 9pm) is going to be just as overwhelmed by two networks as Thursdays at 9pm with GA/CSI.
Yes, I do, on occasion. And I think it has lost its charm. Plus, Lorelai needs to get along with her parents already.
quote:
Originally posted by thewbrocks67:
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: You know what...the CW has a ton of aging shows it needs to decide what to do with. My initial thought for 7th Heaven was moving it to Sunday at 7 p.m. (a la ABC's Life Goes On) to give the evening some anchor support. But if the ratings continue to dip, I'm not so sure. Personally, I think Gilmore Girls has just lost it creatively.
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLady:
quote:
...the CW’s veteran Gilmore Girls (Viewers: #5, 4.26 million; A18-49: #3t, 2.1/ 5). Given that Gilmore Girls scored a heftier 5.22 million viewers with a 2.3/ 6 on the WB on the year-ago evening, should the CW really be going out of its way to try to renew it?
Marc, are you really saying that you think it's in The CW's best interest to cancel Gilmore Girls, but, based on some of your recent postings, renew 7th Heaven, which just two days ago pulled in a mere 3.1 million viewers and 1.2/3 A18-49 rating? And 7th Heaven didn't have to compete with American Idol.
Plus you're so quick to dismiss Veronica Mars based on last night's ratings (viewers 2.74 million; A18-49 1.2/3), but I'd be willing to wager that VM outperformed 7th Heaven in The CW's target demo of A18-34.
Now, believe me, I'm not defending Veronica Mars. I think it should have been cancelled after the 1st season, but I'd like to hear your justification for suggesting The CW cancel GG and VM, but renew the older, lower rated (A18-34 demo) 7th Heaven.
Just curious.
Marc, do you even WATCH Gilmore Girls? How would you know its lost it "creatively"?
And seriously, give the show a break! Its in its 6th season and Idol is getting 33 million. It hit 4.3 milion last night, up 600,000 viewers from last weeks horrifying 3.7mil. It hit a 2.1 demo, tying for 3rd but your so biased against The CW. And Veronica getting 2.7 million against House #s is actually decent. Not great but House got nearly 28 million viewers. Thats a bigger threat than facing CSI or Greys Anatomy or any other show on TV besides Idol and thats barely down from its numbers before repeats. Give some shows a break! Your so quick to make The CW look bad!
Marc, do you even WATCH Gilmore Girls? How would you know its lost it "creatively"?
And seriously, give the show a break! Its in its 6th season and Idol is getting 33 million. It hit 4.3 milion last night, up 600,000 viewers from last weeks horrifying 3.7mil. It hit a 2.1 demo, tying for 3rd but your so biased against The CW. And Veronica getting 2.7 million against House #s is actually decent. Not great but House got nearly 28 million viewers. Thats a bigger threat than facing CSI or Greys Anatomy or any other show on TV besides Idol and thats barely down from its numbers before repeats. Give some shows a break! Your so quick to make The CW look bad!
They HAVE "lost it creatively." That's just a fact. But actually, the last two episodes have been surprisingly good, compared to the earlier ones of the season, and I've heard good things about the second half anyway. So maybe they'll get closer to being on-track. We'll see. I'm interested to see next week's episode! And it's in its SEVENTH season, not sixth.
Granted, 4.3 and 2.7 for these shows, respectively, is OKAY by CW standards, and by the standards of the individuals shows (and also considering the competition), but it is NOT okay in the world of television, where shows like Heroes tend to get 14-16 million viewers every week.
But here's another thing to consider, which has actually already been brought up (so I won't spend much time on it): this network targets TEENS and other young people. And this is precisely the group that will NOT be found watching TV at night. They'll be out partying and having fun, finishing their high school shenanigans and whatnot. THAT'S where the slack needs to be cut. The CW wants to target teens, so LET them. Just don't be so choosy about ratings, and in turn, the quality of the shows (because lower ratings equals lowers budgets equals lower quality).
Personally, I think VM is still pretty good; and it was always good. It's a mystery show, and a pretty darn good one at that. I happen to find it more interesting than shows like CSI, etc. But that might just be me. Just because I've talked about the show in front of them, I've gotten at least three or four people interested in Veronica Mars in the past year, and by extension, lots more. That's NOT a fluke.
Posts: 302 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 29 January 2007
Originally posted by kimends: TWoP isn't just a message board, it's a site with funny, lengthy recaps of tv shows. People also discuss the shows in the forums.
I think not. Both CSI and GA get those on a weekly basis and more.
When Dancing with the Stars comes back in March, the House/DwtS hour (Tuesday, 9pm) is going to be just as overwhelmed by two networks as Thursdays at 9pm with GA/CSI.
Well then the others will then know what it's like to face goliaths. It's not pretty out there, for any show. As someone stated, new shows are brought on and most fail. It's tough and very competitive. But I also think that some stations, such as ABC, CBS and NBC have a greater advantage over the CW and FOX. FOX has AI and not much else, but that station also went through a painful growth period. So you and others have programs that do wonderfully because they are on stations that are more available and more established and it must give you a sense of power to be able to put other less known stations down because, hey, they don't do as good as your station. Like the "my dog is better than your dog" syndrome.
The CW is, by all means, still new. It does need to built its business and some of the programs it has, though not the rating draw of the big three, are still of a better quality than half the trash that's out there. For people to state, well the ratings aren't good, trash it, well remember, your show isn't going to last either and sooner or later, all will be trashed for the new.
pisher, you really have it in for VM don't ya? lol
Last nights episode was fantastic by the way.
I still believe the show will be back for another season.
I'm really interested to see how much the inclusion of the college ratings help the show (if its true that they do). Plus it was airing against darn strong competition last night (House). It didn't do terrible, just not as good as it should have done.
I also don't think VM and GG is a good pair. I don't watch GG, but isn't that show targeted mainly at women? Veronica Mars may have a female lead, but it's not (and should not) be targeted at a women audience.
One thing that irritates the heck out of me with The CW is the way they market their network. Not only are they going after the limited A18-34 audience, but they are further reducing that to the W18-34 audience and younger, basically ignoring the 50+ audience which is rather large and important.
They are alienating such a large population from their shows. It's a dumb strategy, and for the life of me I'll never understand how anyone thought it was a good idea.
Posts: 533 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 22 September 2006
So the Tribune is now with the CW (at least in my market and the Colorado one) and it is doing worse ratings than the WB. So why would they resign on as an affiliate next year?
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Originally posted by LuckyLady:
quote:
They BOTH failed, but WB was in worse financial straits, because of poor financial management.
They didn't both fail. UPN was struggling, yes, but it was lights out for The WB when Tribune refused to resign as affiliates. Without the coverage of the Tribune stations, there was no more WB Network. After Tribune notified Barry Meyer of their decision, Meyer met with Moonves to discuss a merger. Moonves could have said no and The WB would have folded and UPN gone on. That's why, although CBS/Paramount and Time Warner are equal partners, CBS/Paramount is "more equal" than TW.
