Originally posted by Time Shifter: AD is an apt comparison: decent shows that gets awards and have very devoted followers but with limited audiences. They might have been more successful on Showtime or HBO. But, the networks stick with some of these well-reviewed cult shows in the hope that they will be the next Cheers or Seinfeld and become hits after floundering.
The theory is shows like Arrested Development and 30 Rock only have small niche audiences because the characters are unlikable. I think that's only part of it. After all, Seinfeld's characters were unlikable (as made blatantly clear in its finale for everyone who didn't want to acknowledge it over the years).
What Seinfeld did was make its unlikable characters recognizable and relatable. Everyone knew people with some characteristics shown by George, Elaine, etc and believed/feared they shared many of the characteristics and found themselves in similar situations. It was largely a show about embarrassment, a very old comedy staple.
Yes, there is very funny writing on Arrested Development and 30 Rock. But the characters are so over the top, the situations they find themselves in are so out there and the whiff of hatred for people permeates the shows so much, funniness is not enough of a positive for the majority of the potential audience to come back to the shows once they've sampled them.
Arrested Development is finished of course, but 30 Rock still has time to fix things. Depends on if it's temperamentally possible for Tina Fey to do so.
With regards to AD you left out it's biggest problem, it's serial nature. Seinfeld, like most sit-coms, had a few ongoing story arcs, but each episode usually stood on it's own. If you missed a couple AD's you had no idea who was doing what. It was all or nothing, which makes it very hard to build an audience. 30 Rock, which I like, I think may be too inside show business for most people who don't care about our eternal fascination with ourselves.
Posts: 185 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 03 January 2008
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Big Shots 10:00 p.m. – Viewers: 7.78 million; A18-49: 3.0/ 8 10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 5.75 million; A18-49: 2.2/ 6
Grey's Anatomy ran over for 2 minutes, I think. So, the second half hour is probably close to the 'real' rating for Big Shots and the dropoff between the half hours won't be nearly as bad in finals.
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Originally posted by TravisYanan: Thursday original finals SHOW HH A18-49 Viewers
BIG SHOTS (10:02pm) 4.4/7 2.4/7 6,287,000
It is interesting to note that since ER debuted in 1994, there have been only a very small list of ABC programs that have won the W18-34 demographic in this tough Thursday at 10 pm timeslot.
According to ABC, Big Shots triumphed once again last night in attracting the most young women Thursdays at 10 pm:
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"Big Shots" (10:00-11:00 p.m.) In the final hour of the night against veteran dramas on CBS ("Without a Trace") and NBC ("ER"), ABC's freshman "Big Shots" ranked No. 1 among Women 18-34 (3.5/10).
For all the whoopla over Without a Trace's enormous viewer count, or ER's higher A35-49 numbers, when Big Shots has aired Thursdays at 10 pm this season, more young women are tuned to ABC than to any other network.
Originally posted by bored striker: With regards to AD you left out it's biggest problem, it's serial nature. Seinfeld, like most sit-coms, had a few ongoing story arcs, but each episode usually stood on it's own. If you missed a couple AD's you had no idea who was doing what. It was all or nothing, which makes it very hard to build an audience. 30 Rock, which I like, I think may be too inside show business for most people who don't care about our eternal fascination with ourselves.
Some good points, bored. Yeah, the serial nature was a problem for AD, but I don't think it was the biggest problem. It tried to overcome the serial issue by being heavily narrated.
Lots of people, Marc included, say 30 Rock is too inside. Yet one of the most successful, fondly remembered sitcoms was The Mary Tyler Moore Show set in a TV newsroom. Murphy Brown succeeded too. Inside shows can be made to work. Give us something to make us connect with the characters.
I'm surprised more people here aren't bombarding you with strike questions. Are both sides pinning their hopes on the DGA/AMPTP talks now? Are a lot of writers at the stage they'll take any DGA outcome now? If that doesn't resolve things, will SAG, usually militant, still go out in July even though many members who normally work will have been sidelined by the strike for months already? Yeah, I know many SAG members work little in the industry anyway, so they'll care less about losing jobs, if that's not too inflammatory an observation.
Originally posted by dumont: According to ABC, Big Shots triumphed once again last night in attracting the most young women Thursdays at 10 pm:
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"Big Shots" (10:00-11:00 p.m.) In the final hour of the night against veteran dramas on CBS ("Without a Trace") and NBC ("ER"), ABC's freshman "Big Shots" ranked No. 1 among Women 18-34 (3.5/10).
For all the whoopla over Without a Trace's enormous viewer count, or ER's higher A35-49 numbers, when Big Shots has aired Thursdays at 10 pm this season, more young women are tuned to ABC than to any other network.
Hopefully, Travis will see this and let us know if it is true or just another one of ABC's lies. ABC is known for providing their press releases based upon the preliminary data that does not subtract out the overruns from Grey's Anatomy.
The characters on Mary Tyler Moore were easier to relate to than on 30 Rock.
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Originally posted by raes:
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Originally posted by bored striker: With regards to AD you left out it's biggest problem, it's serial nature. Seinfeld, like most sit-coms, had a few ongoing story arcs, but each episode usually stood on it's own. If you missed a couple AD's you had no idea who was doing what. It was all or nothing, which makes it very hard to build an audience. 30 Rock, which I like, I think may be too inside show business for most people who don't care about our eternal fascination with ourselves.
Some good points, bored. Yeah, the serial nature was a problem for AD, but I don't think it was the biggest problem. It tried to overcome the serial issue by being heavily narrated.
Lots of people, Marc included, say 30 Rock is too inside. Yet one of the most successful, fondly remembered sitcoms was The Mary Tyler Moore Show set in a TV newsroom. Murphy Brown succeeded too. Inside shows can be made to work. Give us something to make us connect with the characters.
I'm surprised more people here aren't bombarding you with strike questions. Are both sides pinning their hopes on the DGA/AMPTP talks now? Are a lot of writers at the stage they'll take any DGA outcome now? If that doesn't resolve things, will SAG, usually militant, still go out in July even though many members who normally work will have been sidelined by the strike for months already? Yeah, I know many SAG members work little in the industry anyway, so they'll care less about losing jobs, if that's not too inflammatory an observation.
Originally posted by raes: I'm surprised more people here aren't bombarding you with strike questions. Are both sides pinning their hopes on the DGA/AMPTP talks now? Are a lot of writers at the stage they'll take any DGA outcome now? If that doesn't resolve things, will SAG, usually militant, still go out in July even though many members who normally work will have been sidelined by the strike for months already? Yeah, I know many SAG members work little in the industry anyway, so they'll care less about losing jobs, if that's not too inflammatory an observation.
I think right now there are two camps on the writer's side. Those who hate the AMPTP, and those who hate the AMPTP and the WGA. Bill Mahr made a very good statement at the end of his show Friday night praising his writers and saying how much he wants them back, while chastising the wga for going to war without an exit strategy and for the witch hunts now going on. (He has been criticized for going back to work and he was also picketed) I feel the strike will settle in June or July around the time of the sag contract expiration and we'll go back to work at our normal time for a fall season (writers start in june/filming starts in late july) The only thing that could end the strike sooner is if the DGA deal is good for us and there is a large scale defection by show runners on the TV side.
Posts: 185 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 03 January 2008
Originally posted by robert: Disappointing numbers everywhere. The only positive number is for 5TH Grader which in my opinion is in a close battle with Crowned as the worst show currently on TV
Originally posted by T Dog: Ever heard of "Jerry Springer"?
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Originally posted by robert: Disappointing numbers everywhere. The only positive number is for 5TH Grader which in my opinion is in a close battle with Crowned as the worst show currently on TV
Well you're right, i forgot to mention i was talking about prime time TV shows on the 5 "big" (well CW not that big) networks
Yeah, you can't compete with hookers throwing chairs at one another
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Originally posted by robert:
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Originally posted by T Dog: Ever heard of "Jerry Springer"?
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Originally posted by robert: Disappointing numbers everywhere. The only positive number is for 5TH Grader which in my opinion is in a close battle with Crowned as the worst show currently on TV
Well you're right, i forgot to mention i was talking about prime time TV shows on the 5 "big" (well CW not that big) networks
