Originally posted by Twins12: This whole Flashpoint argument reminds me so much of the Moonlight argument. The pro-Moonlight forces would always argue that it finished first in its time slot even though it lost viewers from its lead in every week. To me, since it went up against no competition its first place meant nothing. To me, with Flashpoint up against virtually nothing it needs to get better numbers than 7 million and a demo in the mid to upper 1's. With no competition its numbers are very weak. Do they get weaker or stronger, that is what we have to watch, but right now they are very weak against no competition.
It's nothing like Moonlight. *Moonlight aired in the fall season with numbers in the 8 millions. Flashpoint is airing in the summer season with numbers in the 7 millions (right now). *Moonlight had a good lead in, and always lost from it. Flashpoint has a repeat for a lead in and always gains from it.
So, you really can't judge between a fall and summer show. It's basically two different situations.
Posts: 2160 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: 02 January 2008
Originally posted by Twins12: This whole Flashpoint argument reminds me so much of the Moonlight argument. The pro-Moonlight forces would always argue that it finished first in its time slot even though it lost viewers from its lead in every week. To me, since it went up against no competition its first place meant nothing. To me, with Flashpoint up against virtually nothing it needs to get better numbers than 7 million and a demo in the mid to upper 1's. With no competition its numbers are very weak. Do they get weaker or stronger, that is what we have to watch, but right now they are very weak against no competition.
I'm not a fan of Flashpoint at all, heck, I haven't even watched it! I'm saying what is right, which is shows drop from the premiere in both demos and viewers. Also, I don't see the point in being so judgmental based off of two airings. Maybe 5, but not 2.
And it may just be me, but after every single premiere this summer, I've seen the same post from the same few people saying "(show) is in trouble if it can't hold it's numbers, it must gain, not lose." I think we all know this, no need to be repetitive with the same posts.
Posts: 2230 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
Originally posted by Justin: And it may just be me, but after every single premiere this summer, I've seen the same post from the same few people saying "(show) is in trouble if it can't hold it's numbers, it must gain, not lose." I think we all know this, no need to be repetitive with the same posts.
OMG!!! Thank you!!!
If it were only 2-3 years ago, I'd totally agree with everyone dissing a show that lost substantial numbers from its premiere week. However, now with DVR and internet streaming, you actually have to wait a couple of weeks to see those numbers before you can really see if a show is a total failure.
I'm also wondering if CBS' plans to re-air the show on Sunday this summer is having any effect. I know my cable guide list all of the times that a show is aired in the upcoming week, and it's highly possible some people saw that Flashpoint is also airing on Sunday and decided to watch it tonight instead of Friday??!
Originally posted by ragincajun: I'm also wondering if CBS' plans to re-air the show on Sunday this summer is having any effect. I know my cable guide list all of the times that a show is aired in the upcoming week, and it's highly possible some people saw that Flashpoint is also airing on Sunday and decided to watch it tonight instead of Friday??!
Other side of coin: it is possible people saw the encore last Sunday and that boosted the number of people that tuned in this Friday to watch, thus the viewer drop was smaller than 'normal' due to a boost from encore viewers coming in to the primary timeslot.
Other side of coin: it is possible people saw the encore last Sunday and that boosted the number of people that tuned in this Friday to watch, thus the viewer drop was smaller than 'normal' due to a boost from encore viewers coming in to the primary timeslot.
That's also a possibility, but the point remains that we have to wait a couple of weeks for the final numbers from all viewing sources before we'll know what is actually happening with a new show.
Originally posted by ragincajun: That's also a possibility, but the point remains that we have to wait a couple of weeks for the final numbers from all viewing sources before we'll know what is actually happening with a new show.
The +7 data doesn't mean anything. people watching a TV show 5 days later on DVR do not have any value at all to advertisers. Since they are not paid for, they are not useful. If +7 DVR numbers meant something, people wouldn't be claiming that Hopkins was doing better than Swingtown.
Originally posted by Twins12: This whole Flashpoint argument reminds me so much of the Moonlight argument. The pro-Moonlight forces would always argue that it finished first in its time slot even though it lost viewers from its lead in every week. To me, since it went up against no competition its first place meant nothing. To me, with Flashpoint up against virtually nothing it needs to get better numbers than 7 million and a demo in the mid to upper 1's. With no competition its numbers are very weak. Do they get weaker or stronger, that is what we have to watch, but right now they are very weak against no competition.
It's nothing like Moonlight. *Moonlight aired in the fall season with numbers in the 8 millions. Flashpoint is airing in the summer season with numbers in the 7 millions (right now). *Moonlight had a good lead in, and always lost from it. Flashpoint has a repeat for a lead in and always gains from it.
So, you really can't judge between a fall and summer show. It's basically two different situations.
Beyond that, who is in the "Pro-FLASHPOINT" forces? Most "supportive" posts also carried with it some hedge or criticism. And I haven't seen any post that suggested winning the hour was some consolation for the drop. It's been a fairly objective discussion, actually, at least for the most part.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bruce,
Posts: 1589 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Originally posted by ragincajun: I'm also wondering if CBS' plans to re-air the show on Sunday this summer is having any effect. I know my cable guide list all of the times that a show is aired in the upcoming week, and it's highly possible some people saw that Flashpoint is also airing on Sunday and decided to watch it tonight instead of Friday??!
Other side of coin: it is possible people saw the encore last Sunday and that boosted the number of people that tuned in this Friday to watch, thus the viewer drop was smaller than 'normal' due to a boost from encore viewers coming in to the primary timeslot.
Both points probably true which is why the sunday nite rating is worth looking at and is not just your typical throwaway encore airing but rather a legitimate gauge of the ongoing strength of the show, at least at this early stage.
Posts: 1589 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Originally posted by ragincajun: That's also a possibility, but the point remains that we have to wait a couple of weeks for the final numbers from all viewing sources before we'll know what is actually happening with a new show.
The +7 data doesn't mean anything. people watching a TV show 5 days later on DVR do not have any value at all to advertisers. Since they are not paid for, they are not useful. If +7 DVR numbers meant something, people wouldn't be claiming that Hopkins was doing better than Swingtown.
Yes, but it's a measure the networks can "sell" to the advertisers in terms of product placement.
Going back to Swingtown, not that I'm trying to imply whatsoever that it has any life past this summer, it would have been a perfect example of a show that CBS could have used for DVR/product placement advertising. In the initial episodes, there were shots of TAB, Rice-a-Roni, Campbell Soup, and car brands. If nothing else, the nets can use these numbers to get the advertisers to help underwrite some of the production costs in exchange for featuring their products.
The first rule of General Business 101:
"The bottom line of the income statement is much more important than the top line."
Originally posted by Twins12: This whole Flashpoint argument reminds me so much of the Moonlight argument. The pro-Moonlight forces would always argue that it finished first in its time slot even though it lost viewers from its lead in every week. To me, since it went up against no competition its first place meant nothing. To me, with Flashpoint up against virtually nothing it needs to get better numbers than 7 million and a demo in the mid to upper 1's. With no competition its numbers are very weak. Do they get weaker or stronger, that is what we have to watch, but right now they are very weak against no competition.
It's nothing like Moonlight. *Moonlight aired in the fall season with numbers in the 8 millions. Flashpoint is airing in the summer season with numbers in the 7 millions (right now). *Moonlight had a good lead in, and always lost from it. Flashpoint has a repeat for a lead in and always gains from it.
So, you really can't judge between a fall and summer show. It's basically two different situations.
Beyond that, who is in the "Pro-FLASHPOINT" forces? Most "supportive" posts also carried with it some hedge or criticism. And I haven't seen any post that suggested winning the hour was some consolation for the drop. It's been a fairly objective discussion, actually, at least for the most part.
Good point Bruce. I believe Fox's Til Death and B2Y also won their timeslots in the demo on Wednesdays this spring but the ratings still sucked.
Originally posted by ragincajun: Yes, but it's a measure the networks can "sell" to the advertisers in terms of product placement.
Flashpoint product placement for hollow point bullets? Flak jackets?
quote:
Going back to Swingtown, not that I'm trying to imply whatsoever that it has any life past this summer, it would have been a perfect example of a show that CBS could have used for DVR/product placement advertising. In the initial episodes, there were shots of TAB, Rice-a-Roni, Campbell Soup, and car brands.
I was surprised to learn that TAB was still sold. I thought they went out of business decades ago. I'm not sure showing 1970s cars as 'product placements' would help current sales, either. Swingtown does do a fantastic job with the music integration, though: songs in the show, songs tied to the last.fm internet site, and songs tied to the 70s TimeLife CD collections.
quote:
The first rule of General Business 101:
"The bottom line of the income statement is much more important than the top line."
This is why I think the Dog show still has the best chance at a second season. It costs much less to make and can be resold immediately to something like Animal Planet or Reality/Gameshow network. I don't think Swingtown or Flashpoint has a chance at syndication level episode counts.
I wasn't talking about product placement in general, not specifically for Flashpoint, just to make a point as to how DVR + 7 numbers could be useful for the nets. The rules of the game are changing, and both the nets and the advertisers need to learn to adapt.
Oh, and BTW, Coca-Cola still makes TAB. For a lark after seeing it in the show, I bought some at Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago.
