Very good question. Law & Order: Trail By Jury never skewed lower than 3.1 in the demo, and never below 10 million viewers. Ever since it was canceled, NBC has yet to find another show that can do that well in the Friday 10pm slot (or on the whole network for that matter...)
I would guess NBC canceled it because they were afraid of Law & Order overkill, but clearly that is not that case considering Law & Order is on almost everyday on NBC, and is on at least 10 hours a day from all the cable nets.
I thought the cancellation may have been premature as well, but to the best of my recollection the APPARENT thinking went like this:
They never intended it to be a friday nite show. It was launched on friday to see how it would do. The net was much stronger then. Yes, it started high, in fact that 14mm may have been the premiere or close to it. By the end of the season it was closer to the 10mm number.
They felt NUMBERS was a very beatable show and when TBJ and NUMBERS were at a standoff, with TBJ having lost a substantial amount from the premiere, they did not see TBJ as a show that could make it on another nite and they apparently did not want to pay for an L&O to get those kind of numbers.
The fact that they ended up airing the mothership two years later in the same time period could be raised, but by then NBC was much weaker and they were really looking for a place to dump the original.
This was 4 years ago but I'm pretty sure that is how it played out.
Posts: 2852 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Well, I'm not a Whedon fanboy. I don't happen to love everything Whedon has ever done, including Dollhouse. And I don't think that, because he created a couple of good shows, everything else he does should be treated as somehow sacred. (Again, that includes Dollhouse.
However, Buffy was a pop culture hit and will remain, I'm sure, a cult classic.
True, the ratings it got on the WB wouldn't have been good enough for FOX. But, one, few shows on the WB had ratings comparable to those on the bigger networks. And, two, Buffy's ratings no doubt would've been higher if it had been on FOX, which had a longer reach than the WB.
As for who remembers Buffy, um, pretty much everybody. Even those who never watched an episode know what that show is and what it was about. By comparison, if you mention Felicity, a handful of people might sorta remember that it was a TV show, and an even smaller handful might actually remember what it was about.
And, to this day, they are turning out books (fiction and nonfiction), comic books and other merchandise devoted to Buffy.
Apart from what else you are saying here, I seriously doubt MIAMI would be moved to the sunday 10pm time period. They are not going to break up a nite they own to basically rebuild one of the few nites they face obstacles on. Also, MIAMI may even build audience next year on Monday where it is hard to imagine it not losing some in a move to Sunday. With its strong demo, and being somewhat at the crossroads in terms of hanging onto an aud of about 15mm, moving this show would be far too risky with a questionable possible gain. Don't assume they can throw anything into the 10pm hour on Monday to inherit the MIAMI audience.
I do agree on the NCIS spinoff at Wed 8pm because their approach to that hour has been almost token in recent years. They have an opportunity to build a very powerful nite.
quote:
Originally posted by mushu_jj: While the CBS Sunday Night Movie was usually enjoyable in the past, especially during the holiday season, I think CBS is in a position where dumping movies on Sundays (something that likely wouldn't make much money either) is a bad decision at this point. CBS has incredible comedy resources right now. Use them and give comedy lovers who aren't hot on cartoons a lineup to watch. Plus, the comedy could eliminate the overrun program with football and they could move one of their CSI spinoffs to 10pm where it would face easy competition aside from football (which in Miami's case it already does). The Wednesday comedies main problem in my mind is that neither is a lead off show, the hour is weak itself, and CBS hasn't had success in that hour in years. The NCIS spinoff is my vote for Wed. 8pm next year and Sunday should become 60 Minutes, 2 hours of comedies, and CSI: Miami with the strong Monday block being used to launch a new non-crime drama on Mondays at 10. Leave Tuesdays, Wed. 9 to 11, Thur. 8 to 10 (new drama at 11), and GW and Numb3rs alone and place Cold Case on Fridays at 9. If they feel that's too much comedy, place Amazing Race on Sundays at 9 and go with just one laugher in the fall on Sundays with another joining it at midseason. TAR could also go Thursdays at 8 in place of Survivor from Dec.-late Feb. and again air in the summer on Thursday nights.
quote:
Originally posted by WlcmLAPD: Sundays in general is having a hard time competiting with football. I think it would be smart for CBS to air a movie and concern themselves with other days and timeslots.
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce: Since all nights are in a way related, anyone share my view that CBS is ready to end their 3 year experiment with a drama heavy Sunday and return to the movie?
The first year they had a fairly strong CC and WAT, but then needed the latter for thursday again.
Last year, I felt SHARK was a dump at 10pm, and we know THE UNIT was a dump at 10 this year.
This coupled with the further aging of CC and what many agree would be a smart move to bring it to friday, coupled with ABC's likely continuing strength and the NFL to me points to a nite where it has become difficult for CBS to make money.
Posts: 2852 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Buffy-Dollhouse Household Comparisons: 1997 vs 2009
With the third episode aired Friday night on FOX, 'Dollhouse' has moved ahead of 'Buffy' in its third episode household numbers, and it is pretty close (within 0.2HH) of approximating the average HH rating of 'Buffy' 12 years ago.
This is evidence that FOX has succeeded in attracting the homeless Buffy demo over to its network.
Now, FOX must figure out a way to grow the numbers a bit. I vote for a one-off out of 'Bones' on a Thursday. This series is much more important than 'Hell's Kitchen'. And this series could use a little lift from the 'Bones' Boreanaz demo...after all, he completely owes his career to Buffy in the first place.
Angel pondering the Nielsens while gazing at Buffy in 'Buffy, The Vampire Slayer' on The WB television network
Originally posted by dumont: Buffy-Dollhouse Household Comparisons: 1997 vs 2009
With the third episode aired Friday night on FOX, 'Dollhouse' has moved ahead of 'Buffy' in its third episode household numbers, and it is pretty close (within 0.2HH) of approximating the average HH rating of 'Buffy' 12 years ago.
But, again, it comes down to what network those shows were on. Ratings that were considered pretty good on the still new WB back in 1997 aren't going to be seen as being so great by the very established FOX in 2009.
And, again, had Buffy aired on FOX, it's ratings would've been higher if for no other reason than that FOX simply reached more people than the WB did.
Outside of 7th Heaven and Gilmore Girls, Buffy was the biggest sustained hit that the WB had. In its peak season it averaged 5.3 million viewers, with new episodes topping 7 million and nearing 8. Fox would kill for those numbers on Friday, but it's not going to get them with Dollhouse. If I had to rank WB series based on their hit status and longevity, it would probably be as follows: 7th Heaven, Gilmore Girls, Buffy, Smallville, Charmed, Dawsons Creek and Reba.
Originally posted by Joshua-L: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Time Shifter:
--and I never understood what was so great about Buffy--again a lot of friends liked it and it lasted a long time, so I assume it just wasn't to my taste. So far, I've only seen the first Dollhouse. I expected the worst and found it perfectly decent but it gave me no indication what the show would be about. Is it a better-than-average SciFi Channel movie (or Showtime-era Outer limits episode) stretched beyond it's plot? Is it B (or C) level scifi like TekWar or those two syndicated Roddenberry "creations" after they went bad? Based on the reviews, it's not that good. So why would it draw an audience? Even if it is a good concept and well executed after the pilot (though the fact that I thought the pilot was okay leads me to believe that it is not heading in a direction that builds on anything good in the pilot), QUOTE]
I will recommend you some Buffy episodes to watch and I think Dollhouse will get so much better after the 5th episode once the stand-alones are done.
If I had come to it in the right way, I might have been able to get into Buffy, but I didn't. After a while, I figured it was too late, and, when I tried to watch, it made no sense and seemed silly. I got into SG1 when Atlantis started, but I had the advantage of SciFi rerunning SG1.
Marketing is a very important factor in the creative arts. Perceptions matter. If the public thinks a show is a certain genre, say SciFi or soap, and, further, thinks that, regardless of whether it is good, it is not for them, and further, thinks even if it is good and perhaps they should give it a chance, it is too late, that show will have a problem. Unless, of course, it has a low enough budget and low enough (audience) expectations to survive with what it's drawing. I still don't get why Heroes ever drew the audiences it did. It is SciFi with long story arcs. It has "limited appeal" written all over it, yet, like Lost, it drew big numbers, at least for the first year. Then, came the unappealing storylines and frustration with the comic book genre set in--it really isn't going somewhere like Lost; it is just a series of arcs about these characters with superpowers, arcs that could go on for decades, as comic books do. Had it been on SciFi, perhaps it wouldn't matter. If it had been viewed the way comic books are, the way daytime soaps are, where story arcs come and go but you can stick with the show even if you don't like a particular story, perhaps it could have worked in the long-term. As low-budget cable/syndicated kitsch (like Andromeda or Xena) or even higher budget cable that still doesn't draw network audiences (think the sci fi equivalent of The Wire, The Sopranos, Damages, Dexter, or Nip/Tuck), it might have worked a lot better (or longer; I'm sure NBC and the producers cashed in on Heroes's early success). The expectations are different.
That's where Dollhouse (and SCC and Fringe) come in. I just don't why Fox and Whedon went about Dollhouse as a mainstream network show. Is making good on Whedon and Dusku's development deals more important than finding a way to make the show work? I guess so. A bunch of standalone episodes (the first of which made me think that this could work as a low-budget sci fi procedural on basic cable) followed by concentrating on the continuous stories would only work if the show had good buzz and appeal and AI as a lead-in for the first six weeks. Otherwise, there was every reason for the audience to turn away regardless of whether the show was going to hit its stride. I keep coming back to the fact that the networks really don't know what they are doing. Sorry to ramble on.
Posts: 102 | Location: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: 01 January 2007
Yeah right, and besides some Whedon fanboys/girls who remembers Buffy?
Oh come on now. Whether you like it or not that's just a ridiculous comment to make. Everybody knows the show. I read three different articles today which mentioned Buffy and only one of them was related vaguely to Whedon. I don't think I've seen a full season of Buffy and even I could easily recognise quotes and references from it. To say that nobody will remember it is just biased nonsense. If you don't like Dollhouse that's no problem, it's not to my taste either. There's no need to get silly over it.
Buffy was never the success some of you may believe.
You are so full of it. is that why the show lasted for 7 years? Look, Buffy was one of the shows that made The WB what it was back in the days. If Buffy was shown on the "parent" channels, this show would not have lasted, but this show lasted 7 years with 4.5 million as you stated. I know of ANOTHER show that lasted for 8 years with lower ratings, it was called CHARMED. Also, Buffy has a loyal fanbase that is STILL around today.
You know robert, get over it. Not all shows are going to have your The Mentalist ratings. You must work for CBS.
1. CHARMED is the most amazing, awesome, BEST show ever. Period. And still has millions of fans who they are still makng money off of.
2. Buffy and Angel also have loyal fans who still keep the show alive. So yes these may be cult shows but they're shows that will be talked about and kept alive forever so YES they are successes can you say that about some of the shows on now? A few yes but most will die away.
3. Ratings arent Everything. I miss the WB because they gave their shows the chance I mean 7th Heaven it ran for 11 years. They gave people what they want to see and didn't pull shows after one season.
Don't get too upset Plaw23, Roberts is being unnecassarily (not sure if i spelt that right) nasty about Dollhouse,or just in general actually.
And also the Mentalist is just a cop off of Psych.
3. Ratings arent Everything. I miss the WB because they gave their shows the chance I mean 7th Heaven it ran for 11 years. They gave people what they want to see and didn't pull shows after one season.
That's a completely inaccurate statement. 7th Heaven gave The WB extremely good ratings. Read a little, the highest ratings EVER the network enjoyed were scored by an episode of 7H (12 million).
WB, just as any network, renewed shows that standed a chance and let go of the ones that simply didn't work.
The most patient network in the last few years may be NBC (lipstick jungle, life) or maybe UPN (veronica mars)
Originally posted by dl16: Read a little, the highest ratings EVER the network enjoyed were scored by an episode of 7H (12 million).
The 1998-1999 season saw the greatest number of viewers with 7.6 million.
Where did you get 12 million? And alos no need to be rude Those are my opinions and I said it all respectfully.
'Seventh Heaven' set an all-time household, viewership and demo records for The WB on Monday February 8, 1999 with an episode that rated 7.3HH/11%, 12,500,000 viewers, 4.6 A18-49, 4.5 A18-34, 6.3 F18-49 and 6.3 F18-34. I seem to remember it was the episode where the twins were born.
Top 5 Markets (with Indianapolis & Ft. Myers-Naples) : Preliminary Household Ratings Friday, February 27
# 1 # 2 # 3 # 4 # 5 #25 #62
Time Net EARLY MORNING NY LA CHI PHI DAL IND FtM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:00a ABC Good Morning America 3.9/13 2.8/ 9 3.9/13 6.2/19 3.3/11 3.0/10 1.7/ 5
7:00a CBS Early Show 1.7/ 6 0.8/ 3 0.6/ 2 1.5/ 5 2.6/ 8 2.9/ 9 2.6/ 7
7:30a CBS Early Show 1.2/ 4 0.3/ 1 0.3/ 1 1.6/ 5 1.2/ 4 2.8/ 9 3.0/ 8
7:00a NBC Today 3.3/11 2.7/ 9 2.6/ 8 2.7/ 8 2.7/ 9 7.5/24 8.0/22
9:00a NBC Today 2.1/ 8 2.1/ 7 2.4/ 7 2.3/ 7 1.8/ 7 5.6/18 6.0/18
10:00a NBC Today 1.7/ 6 0.6/ 2 1.5/ 5 1.8/ 6 0.6/ 2 4.5/14 1.0/ 3
7:00a FOX Good Day (local) 1.0/ 3 2.9/10 2.2/ 7 2.8/ 9 5.3/18 2.6/ 9 1.1/ 3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 1 # 2 # 3 # 4 # 5 #25 #62
Time Net DAYTIME NY LA CHI PHI DAL IND FtM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:00a ABC The View 5.2/18 3.0/10 6.2/19 5.6/20 2.8/11 2.9/ 9 1.4/ 5
var ABC All My Children 2.4/ 8 1.6/ 6 4.4/13 3.9/13 2.1/ 8 1.4/ 4 1.2/ 3
var ABC One Life to Live 1.6/ 5 1.5/ 6 3.4/11 3.5/12 1.7/ 6 1.7/ 5 1.1/ 3
var ABC General Hospital 1.9/ 6 1.7/ 6 2.6/ 8 3.5/10 1.6/ 6 1.7/ 5 1.4/ 3
11:00a CBS The Price Is Right 1.2/ 4 2.4/ 8 2.8/ 9 3.0/11 2.3/ 9 4.0/12 1.9/ 7
11:30a CBS The Price Is Right 1.8/ 6 2.6/ 9 3.5/11 3.2/11 2.5/ 9 4.7/14 2.4/ 8
var CBS Young & the Restless 2.7/ 9 0.5/ 2 1.1/ 3 4.4/14 2.2/ 8 5.7/16 3.7/11
var CBS Bold & the Beautiful 1.9/ 6 0.3/ 1 1.0/ 3 3.9/13 1.6/ 6 4.0/12 1.2/ 4
var CBS As the World Turns 1.5/ 5 0.2/ 1 1.0/ 3 2.5/ 9 1.2/ 4 2.7/ 8 1.0/ 3
var CBS Guiding Light 0.9/ 3 0.4/ 1 0.4/ 1 1.9/ 6 1.0/ 3 2.4/ 7 0.8/ 2
var NBC Days of Our Lives 1.1/ 4 0.7/ 2 1.6/ 5 1.3/ 4 1.1/ 4 3.6/11 1.3/ 4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 1 # 2 # 3 # 4 # 5 #25 #62
Time Net EARLY EVENING NY LA CHI PHI DAL IND FtM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABC ABC World News Tonight 6.1/12 4.3/ 8 8.0/16 9.8/18 4.6/10 3.9/ 7 2.7/ 5
CBS CBS Evening News 3.3/ 6 1.8/ 3 2.2/ 5 2.5/ 5 1.7/ 4 4.4/ 8 5.5/10
NBC NBC Nightly News 2.7/ 5 2.3/ 4 3.6/ 7 3.4/ 6 4.0/ 9 10.0/19 8.9/16
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 1 # 2 # 3 # 4 # 5 #25 #62
Time Net PRIMETIME NY LA CHI PHI DAL IND FtM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8:00 ABC Wife Swap 4.1/ 7 3.4/ 6 4.5/ 8 3.4/ 6 3.1/ 6 2.0/ 4 2.5/ 4
9:00 ABC Supernanny 4.4/ 7 3.2/ 6 5.5/ 9 4.1/ 7 3.3/ 6 3.0/ 5 1.8/ 3
10:00 ABC 20/20 6.5/11 5.4/10 5.8/10 5.8/10 4.5/ 8 4.0/ 7 2.3/ 4
8:00 CBS Ghost Whisperer 6.7/12 5.0/ 8 6.4/11 8.1/13 5.6/11 8.2/14 7.6/12
9:00 CBS Flashpoint 5.4/ 9 5.0/ 9 5.0/ 9 7.7/13 5.3/10 8.4/14 9.7/15
10:00 CBS NUMB3RS 6.8/11 4.3/ 8 5.2/ 9 7.9/13 5.6/10 9.0/16 10.6/18
8:00 NBC Howie Do It (R) 2.0/ 4 1.6/ 3 2.9/ 5 2.3/ 4 2.6/ 5 5.2/ 9 4.2/ 7
8:30 NBC Howie Do It 2.2/ 4 1.6/ 3 3.0/ 5 1.6/ 3 2.8/ 5 3.8/ 6 3.0/ 5
9:00 NBC Friday Night Lights 2.2/ 4 0.9/ 1 2.4/ 4 2.4/ 4 2.9/ 5 3.1/ 5 3.5/ 5
10:00 NBC Dateline NBC 3.5/ 6 2.9/ 5 4.9/ 8 4.2/ 7 3.2/ 6 5.0/ 9 5.0/ 8
8:00 FOX Terminator: Sarah Connor 1.9/ 3 1.7/ 3 1.8/ 3 1.4/ 2 1.8/ 4 3.1/ 5 2.6/ 4
9:00 FOX Dollhouse 2.0/ 3 2.3/ 4 1.9/ 3 1.6/ 3 1.9/ 4 3.6/ 6 1.7/ 3
8:00 CW Everybody Hates Chris (R) 1.7/ 3 0.7/ 1 2.6/ 5 1.1/ 2 1.3/ 3 1.9/ 3 2.0/ 3
8:30 CW The Game (R) 1.3/ 2 0.3/ 0 2.7/ 5 1.1/ 2 1.5/ 3 1.3/ 2 1.2/ 2
9:00 CW Everybody Hates Chris (R) 0.8/ 1 0.7/ 1 2.7/ 5 0.8/ 1 1.5/ 3 1.2/ 2 0.7/ 1
9:30 CW The Game (R) 0.6/ 1 0.3/ 0 2.9/ 5 0.8/ 1 1.4/ 3 0.7/ 1 0.8/ 1
8:00 MNT WWE Friday Night SmackDown! 2.3/ 4 3.0/ 5 2.4/ 5 3.1/ 5 3.0/ 6 0.0/ 0
7:00 ION Movie: Nat'l Lamp: Vacation 0.3/ 1 0.1/ 0 0.2/ 0 0.2/ 0 0.3/ 1 0.0/ 0
9:00 ION Movie: Pale Rider 0.3/ 1 0.4/ 1 0.3/ 1 0.3/ 0 0.6/ 1 0.0/ 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 1 # 2 # 3 # 4 # 5 #25 #62
Time Net LATE NIGHT NY LA CHI PHI DAL IND FtM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:30 ABC Nightline 3.7/ 7 3.1/ 8 6.0/12 5.0/10 4.2/ 8 2.5/ 6 0.7/ 2
12:00a ABC Jimmy Kimmel 2.2/ 5 1.3/ 4 1.8/ 5 2.3/ 6 1.1/ 3 1.5/ 4 0.5/ 1
11:30 CBS Late Show-D. Letterman (R) 3.6/ 8 1.9/ 5 2.4/ 5 3.0/ 7 2.8/ 6 5.2/12 3.3/ 9
12:30a CBS Late Late Show-Ferguson (R) 1.6/ 5 1.7/ 6 1.6/ 4 1.7/ 5 1.0/ 3 3.2/10 2.7/10
11:30 NBC Tonight Show-Jay Leno (R) 2.5/ 5 3.0/ 8 3.2/ 7 2.3/ 5 2.8/ 6 4.0/ 9 3.6/ 9
12:30a NBC Late Night-Conan O'Brien(R) 0.9/ 3 1.3/ 5 1.9/ 5 1.5/ 4 1.1/ 3 2.7/ 9 1.5/ 5
1:30a NBC Last Call-Carson Daly (R) 0.8/ 3 1.0/ 5 0.9/ 3 0.9/ 3 0.9/ 3 1.4/ 5 0.8/ 4
2:00a NBC Poker After Dark 0.7/ 3 0.7/ 4 0.9/ 4 0.5/ 2 0.6/ 2 1.1/ 5
Which OVERRATED programs of 2009-10 will make up the Futile Four? Vote now! April 8, 2010 PIFC Daily Game features the return of Tiger Woods to PGA Golf! Play now!
