My Own Worst Enemy on Monday was just as bad as Leno and Lipstick Jungle on Wednesday was similar. But SVU on Tuesday, ER on Thursday and Life on Friday were much better. Leno is a complete bust.
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Originally posted by TV-aholic: Marc,
I know this may take a little research work, but was was the average retention for 10pm, NBC shows last season? Especially for last years new series? Did it ever git as bad as Leno's retention numbers?
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: Retention for Leno out of the second half of lead-in SVU (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #4, 2.8/ 7) was 52 percent in total viewers and 50 percent in the demo.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: The problem was the adult 18-49 was very low. But ABC did jump the gun.
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Originally posted by filmkr27: I'm not a huge fan of the show Hank, I only saw the first episode, but does anyone think it was treated kinda unfairly, it seemed to do similar numbers to the middle.
The Middle actually showed growth from Hank, but it may have come down to the quality of the episodes being produced.
What is similar about Criminal Minds and SVU beyond the obvious gruesome deaths?
I think the shows represent two very different ends of the crime drama spectrum. SVU is almost old fashioned by today's standards, a street cop drama in a big city with a group of in your face cops and a cast paced by two very intense and popular performers. Strong interaction with a very authentic local public, very hard edged and visceral.
CM has a very almost next-gen production style, is very cerebral with its relatively low key team doing at times very technical profiling, and has more of an ensemble cast of good role players with the "star" of any ep generally being the killer they are chasing. Lapses into being a bit generic and plain in its interaction with the communities they enter.
I prefer SVU, though I have watched CM. The choice is clear for me. I bet it is for most of the crime audience also either way, but please weigh in anybody on this if you agree or disagree.
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Originally posted by filmkr27: I think SVU should move to Mondays, since Tuesdays is not available where it doesn't have to face similar Criminal Minds.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I think a stronger lead in than Mercy would help L&O: SVU. Right now, it has to do the ratings increase all on its own, without any support.
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Originally posted by spotupj: SVU even when it gets into the upper 2's is consistently a 4th place show.
Posts: 2833 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
I think it needed more time, but of all the ABC shows, I think it was performing the worst, next to Eastwick.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: The problem was the adult 18-49 was very low. But ABC did jump the gun.
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Originally posted by filmkr27: I'm not a huge fan of the show Hank, I only saw the first episode, but does anyone think it was treated kinda unfairly, it seemed to do similar numbers to the middle.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: My Own Worst Enemy on Monday was just as bad as Leno and Lipstick Jungle on Wednesday was similar. But SVU on Tuesday, ER on Thursday and Life on Friday were much better. Leno is a complete bust.
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Marc,
I know this may take a little research work, but was was the average retention for 10pm, NBC shows last season? Especially for last years new series? Did it ever git as bad as Leno's retention numbers?
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Retention for Leno out of the second half of lead-in SVU (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #4, 2.8/ 7) was 52 percent in total viewers and 50 percent in the demo.
But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: My Own Worst Enemy on Monday was just as bad as Leno and Lipstick Jungle on Wednesday was similar. But SVU on Tuesday, ER on Thursday and Life on Friday were much better. Leno is a complete bust.
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Originally posted by TV-aholic: Marc,
I know this may take a little research work, but was was the average retention for 10pm, NBC shows last season? Especially for last years new series? Did it ever git as bad as Leno's retention numbers?
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Retention for Leno out of the second half of lead-in SVU (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #4, 2.8/ 7) was 52 percent in total viewers and 50 percent in the demo.
But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
Well I read this morning that the producers of the Leno show are going to take steps to "revamp" it. And my understanding is they are going to try and make it like it was when he was late-night. The producers and NBC are aware at its low ratings and are going to take steps to try and fix it.
In my opinion, it was a mistake to make this show on five times a week during primetime. It maybe cheaper to produce, but it is not good.
The Jay Leno Show is a failure. ANY show that generates a 1.2 in the demo, or attracts less than 4 million viewers, is a failure, unless you are on the CW.
Despite the costs, Leno is hurting almost all the affiliates Late Local newscasts. With smaller audiences, you have less of a base to promote other shows during the 10pm hour, M-F
When will you see the light of day and recognize that despite the costs, bad ratings are bad ratings, and EVEN NBC is seeing this. Why cant you?
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Originally posted by AL: But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
Originally posted by wenart25: In my opinion, it was a mistake to make this show on five times a week during primetime. It maybe cheaper to produce, but it is not good.
One thing you left out in "expert" analysis is the cost factor involved with the numerous local NBC affiliates losing revenue in their newscasts that follow the Jay Leno show. This wasn't the case when they aired their scripted shows.
In Chicago alone, NBC for the first time is tied with CBS for 2nd place (this being the first time in about 15 years NBC is no longer in 2nd alone). Similar complaints across the country, but you fail to recognize this.
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Originally posted by AL: But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
In the beginning, I was a big defender of the fact that Leno is cheap to produce, but at this point, the ratings on most nights are so low that it has to be affecting 11PM newscasts. Also, I wonder how much ad revenue they make on Leno compared to last year's scripted dramas.
Plus, now that we all know what Leno's capable of delivering, a smarter move would -- at least on some nights -- be to try to develop (admittedly more expensive) dramas but those that could ideally it could bring higher ratings.
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Originally posted by wenart25:
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Originally posted by AL:
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: My Own Worst Enemy on Monday was just as bad as Leno and Lipstick Jungle on Wednesday was similar. But SVU on Tuesday, ER on Thursday and Life on Friday were much better. Leno is a complete bust.
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Marc,
I know this may take a little research work, but was was the average retention for 10pm, NBC shows last season? Especially for last years new series? Did it ever git as bad as Leno's retention numbers?
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Retention for Leno out of the second half of lead-in SVU (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #4, 2.8/ 7) was 52 percent in total viewers and 50 percent in the demo.
But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
Well I read this morning that the producers of the Leno show are going to take steps to "revamp" it. And my understanding is they are going to try and make it like it was when he was late-night. The producers and NBC are aware at its low ratings and are going to take steps to try and fix it.
In my opinion, it was a mistake to make this show on five times a week during primetime. It maybe cheaper to produce, but it is not good.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: My Own Worst Enemy on Monday was just as bad as Leno and Lipstick Jungle on Wednesday was similar. But SVU on Tuesday, ER on Thursday and Life on Friday were much better. Leno is a complete bust.
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Marc,
I know this may take a little research work, but was was the average retention for 10pm, NBC shows last season? Especially for last years new series? Did it ever git as bad as Leno's retention numbers?
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Retention for Leno out of the second half of lead-in SVU (Viewers: #3, 8.91 million; A18-49: #4, 2.8/ 7) was 52 percent in total viewers and 50 percent in the demo.
But isn't comparing shows like My Own Worst Enemy, Lipstick, SVU, and ER to Leno a really really bad comparison, as Leno is a dirt cheap talk show with very low expectations, while the others are expensive scripted shows where the low ratings could never justify the cost?
When will you see the light of day and recognize that while NBC must be disappointed by the ratings of Leno, this is a business and NBC's bottom line would be a lot worse had they been airing low rated scripted shows in the 10PM hour. I don't understand why you can't get this. Yes, we all know that Leno's ratings are low (you find the need to ram that info into our heads on a daily basis), but this show is nowhere near the failure you make it out to be.
Can you show, that at these rating points Leno isn't underdelivering and that NBC isn't in a position to deliver "make goods" to advertisers.
I don't believe that suddenly viewers will start watching Leno and inflate his numbers when the other networks are in repeats. If anything viewers would probably watch cable shows.
I think Leno will just deliver lower ratings due to season HUT levels.
