WOW, that not good news for NBC, if they are getting beat by a Mini-Net.
I wonder if ABC or CBS can deliver 30 million viewers as the Mini-Nets AI can deliver?
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Originally posted by dumont:
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Originally posted by AL: The bottom line is that Marc hates NBC, he holds FOX to a lower standard for some unknown reason, he loves CBS, and he is neutral on ABC. When reading his columns and his winners/losers keep this in mind and take everything will make sense.
Technically speaking, I still consider FOX to be a mini-network with less established affiliates (my local affiliate is a UHFer), only 15 hours of primetime, and limited daypart programming (kidvid, Saturday latenight, Sunday morning news, Sunday afternoon football).
As a mini-net, FOX should be analyzed in the context of the other mini-networks, The CW and MyNetworkTV.
Originally posted by Anthony: I understand the writers plight to be paid for the Internet, digital, and mobile initiaves - but honestly, the studios are still trying to find a way to monetize it.
I don't believe that for a second. I think they're raking in some decent cash from online sales and streaming, at least in those cases where there are commercials, or a pricetag, involved. How could they not be?
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There isn't one breakthrough hit - and the current shows that do exist are primarily down 10-20% across the board - and these people want a raise?
The 10-20% decline is due to DVRs and the natural fragmentation of the audience due to new competition that didn't exist before -- the Internet, DVDs, ever-more cable/satellite channels, etc. Writers can't be blamed for that. Gee, they want, what, 8 cents per DVD instead of 4 cents? How greedy of them!
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... plus "Medium" and "Jericho" are two of my other favorite shows - so there will be more than enough good stuff to watch with or without the writers.
WelcometoK-Ville said: Bionic Woman was a terrible remake. They were doomed in their production quality and acting. No writing would have ever saved those shows from being disasters.
I think the writing for Bionic Woman was atrocious and was a major reason why the show couldn't fly, but there was clearly massive network interference. It could've possibly worked if NBC had kept their "notes" and "brilliant ideas" out of it.
Another problem causing the failure of two-thirds of all scripted shows: the writers can't write freely. Studios and networks keep interfering more and more. It's pretty clear from this article that an NBC exec interfered and picked Michelle Ryan to play the lead role. When it says "she didn't immediately win over those higher-ups", the so-called "higher-ups" are the writer-producers running the show! And she probably "won them over" when NBC-Universal forced them to take her.
Posts: 94 | Location: Newark/NYC | Registered: 16 November 2006
Originally posted by TV-aholic: WOW, that not good news for NBC, if they are getting beat by a Mini-Net.
I wonder if ABC or CBS can deliver 30 million viewers as the Mini-Nets AI can deliver?
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Originally posted by dumont:
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Originally posted by AL: The bottom line is that Marc hates NBC, he holds FOX to a lower standard for some unknown reason, he loves CBS, and he is neutral on ABC. When reading his columns and his winners/losers keep this in mind and take everything will make sense.
Technically speaking, I still consider FOX to be a mini-network with less established affiliates (my local affiliate is a UHFer), only 15 hours of primetime, and limited daypart programming (kidvid, Saturday latenight, Sunday morning news, Sunday afternoon football).
As a mini-net, FOX should be analyzed in the context of the other mini-networks, The CW and MyNetworkTV.
American Idol is a phenomenon, that together with Sunday Football, has made FOX a major seller of advertising for those two programs, which account for a huge percentage of their annual upfront.
But FOX still has the programming profile of a mini-network, selling ad space in only limited dayparts in much the same way as The CW and MyNetworkTV.
Major Networks Mini Networks
CBS ABC NBC The CW FOX MyNetworkTV
Primetime 22.0 22.0 21.0 13.0 15.0 12.0
Latenight 10.0 7.5 22.5 0.0 1.5 0.0
Morning 32.0 32.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Daytime* 22.5 20.0 5.0 12.0 0.0 0.0
News 2.5 3.5 3.5 0.0 0.0 0.0
Kidvid& 3.0 5.0 4.0 5.0 4.0 0.0
Sun AM& 2.0 2.0 2.5 0.0 1.0 0.0
Wked Sports# 10.0 5.0 6.0 0.0 7.0 0.0
---- --- --- --- --- ---
Total 104.0 97.0 85.5 30.0 28.5 12.0
* The CW Daytime includes Sunday Easyview.
& Includes weekend broadcasts of Today and Good Morning America
# Sports programming varies according to season.
American Idol is a phenomenon, that together with Sunday Football, has made FOX a major seller of advertising for those two programs, which account for a huge percentage of their annual upfront.
But FOX still has the programming profile of a mini-network, selling ad space in only limited dayparts in much the same way as The CW and MyNetworkTV.
Major Networks Mini Networks
CBS ABC NBC The CW FOX MyNetworkTV
Primetime 22.0 22.0 21.0 13.0 15.0 12.0
The listing for primetime ad income doesn't correlate with the ad rates shown by Adage in this Adage price survey link. Do you have any idea why the numbers are so vastly different?
American Idol is a phenomenon, that together with Sunday Football, has made FOX a major seller of advertising for those two programs, which account for a huge percentage of their annual upfront.
But FOX still has the programming profile of a mini-network, selling ad space in only limited dayparts in much the same way as The CW and MyNetworkTV.
Major Networks Mini Networks
CBS ABC NBC The CW FOX MyNetworkTV
Primetime 22.0 22.0 21.0 13.0 15.0 12.0
The listing for primetime ad income doesn't correlate with the ad rates shown by Adage in this Adage price survey link. Do you have any idea why the numbers are so vastly different?
The Adage chart estimates upfront and spot pricing for 30 second adverts across primetime only.
The line from my posting refers to the number of hours programmed across primetime.
The Adage chart estimates upfront and spot pricing for 30 second adverts across primetime only.
The line from my posting refers to the number of hours programmed across primetime.
I'm not sure why you would expect a co-relation.
I ask because you are calling FOX a mini-net based upon hours of programming while ignoring viewer and income levels. I'll fully agree with you that FOX doesn't deserve 'full network' status since it cherrypicks a subset of primetime programming hours, but it is much more than the mini-nets that are CW and MNTV.
I'm in the minority and been siding with the AMPTP. The network ratings are in a free fall. Most of the new shows that the writers are delivering right now are in the absolute tank.
And the writers do it all by themselves?
Then what do the network guys get paid for? Wearing suits?
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There isn't one breakthrough hit - and the current shows that do exist are primarily down 10-20% across the board - and these people want a raise?
No, they want merit pay. If the networks are making money off their work, they make money. If not, they don't.
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The horrible writing is a major reason for the bad ratings.
It's the networks who are primarily responsible for the poor quality of the writing. The writers have much less freedom than you think--and the less freedom they have, the less responsibility. They are simply trying to give the networks what they ask for--the networks simply don't know what the audience wants, and are too concerned with trying to appeal to certain demos, and not enough with solid storytelling. They find a formula that works, and beat it to death. They hold the pursestrings, they have the power.
Would you blame the troops in Iraq for all the mistakes made there? It's roughly the same thing--they do the best they can with the orders they are given.
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The audience will still watch entertaining television.
The audience has endless choices, and doesn't remotely agree amongst itself on what entertaining television is. It's literally impossible to please everyone, or half of everyone.
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And isn't it interesting that the highest rated show on network television is "American Idol" - a show that doesn't rely on the WGA.
What's interesting is that suddenly you're arguing that good writing doesn't matter. I mean, even the SONGS on Idol aren't well-written.
The Adage chart estimates upfront and spot pricing for 30 second adverts across primetime only.
The line from my posting refers to the number of hours programmed across primetime.
I'm not sure why you would expect a co-relation.
I ask because you are calling FOX a mini-net based upon hours of programming while ignoring viewer and income levels. I'll fully agree with you that FOX doesn't deserve 'full network' status since it cherrypicks a subset of primetime programming hours, but it is much more than the mini-nets that are CW and MNTV.
Heretofor I shall refer to FOX as a "Minor Network", in between the "Major Networks" and the "Mini Networks".
Major Networks Minor Network Mini Networks
CBS ABC NBC FOX The CW MyNetworkTV
Primetime 22.0 22.0 21.0 15.0 13.0 12.0
You meant BIG SHOTS instead of DIRTY SEXY MONEY right for the 10PM hour? DSM is flopping over on Wed at 10.
Agreed on 30 ROCK...if they renew it again it would be astounding.
Since you're the only fan of that monstrosity known as Big Shots - I'll cut you some slack but your constant disdain for DSM is unimaginable.
If you don't watch it - how dare you talk about it like you know anything.
If you do watch it - you have no time on your hands! Read a book!
I stopped watching it because I know that it is a terrible show.
Look, I know where you're coming from...you don't want to accept that a show you like is flopping but it is. It happenes to everyone. I loved REUNION but its ratings dropped week after week just like DIRTY SEXY MONEY is.
I'm against DSM because ABC is wasting a slot when there might have been better pilots they passed on. Why should DSM be on the air still when a much better show called THE NINE was never allowed to complete its run with similar ratings.
This is a ratings forum and I'm going to express my opinions on DSM as I feel fit and I'll go read a book when I feel like it. Thanks
But did "The Nine" ever have the strong word of mouth buzz that "DSM" has?? I really think that strong word of mouth is beginning to count for more and more when it comes to decide whether a show gets picked up or not.
You meant BIG SHOTS instead of DIRTY SEXY MONEY right for the 10PM hour? DSM is flopping over on Wed at 10.
Agreed on 30 ROCK...if they renew it again it would be astounding.
Since you're the only fan of that monstrosity known as Big Shots - I'll cut you some slack but your constant disdain for DSM is unimaginable.
If you don't watch it - how dare you talk about it like you know anything.
If you do watch it - you have no time on your hands! Read a book!
I stopped watching it because I know that it is a terrible show.
Look, I know where you're coming from...you don't want to accept that a show you like is flopping but it is. It happenes to everyone. I loved REUNION but its ratings dropped week after week just like DIRTY SEXY MONEY is.
I'm against DSM because ABC is wasting a slot when there might have been better pilots they passed on. Why should DSM be on the air still when a much better show called THE NINE was never allowed to complete its run with similar ratings.
This is a ratings forum and I'm going to express my opinions on DSM as I feel fit and I'll go read a book when I feel like it. Thanks
But did "The Nine" ever have the strong word of mouth buzz that "DSM" has?? I really think that strong word of mouth is beginning to count for more and more when it comes to decide whether a show gets picked up or not.
I heard the Nine just got dumber and dumber as it went along. DSM on the other hand, has continued to intrigue me more and more. It doesn't really fit its lead in though. I think after Greys or DH would've been a better fit, but who knows. I won't lose any sleep over it if its cancelled and if its in that situation and ABC does indeed produce the episodes, I think Berlanti is wise enough to write a finale episode. He was the guy that outsmarted the a-holes at the CW who decided it was fun to piss with him and leave him hanging rather than just tell him straight up Everwood was cancelled.
You meant BIG SHOTS instead of DIRTY SEXY MONEY right for the 10PM hour? DSM is flopping over on Wed at 10.
Agreed on 30 ROCK...if they renew it again it would be astounding.
Since you're the only fan of that monstrosity known as Big Shots - I'll cut you some slack but your constant disdain for DSM is unimaginable.
If you don't watch it - how dare you talk about it like you know anything.
If you do watch it - you have no time on your hands! Read a book!
I stopped watching it because I know that it is a terrible show.
Look, I know where you're coming from...you don't want to accept that a show you like is flopping but it is. It happenes to everyone. I loved REUNION but its ratings dropped week after week just like DIRTY SEXY MONEY is.
I'm against DSM because ABC is wasting a slot when there might have been better pilots they passed on. Why should DSM be on the air still when a much better show called THE NINE was never allowed to complete its run with similar ratings.
This is a ratings forum and I'm going to express my opinions on DSM as I feel fit and I'll go read a book when I feel like it. Thanks
But did "The Nine" ever have the strong word of mouth buzz that "DSM" has?? I really think that strong word of mouth is beginning to count for more and more when it comes to decide whether a show gets picked up or not.
I heard the Nine just got dumber and dumber as it went along. DSM on the other hand, has continued to intrigue me more and more. It doesn't really fit its lead in though. I think after Greys or DH would've been a better fit, but who knows. I won't lose any sleep over it if its cancelled and if its in that situation and ABC does indeed produce the episodes, I think Berlanti is wise enough to write a finale episode. He was the guy that outsmarted the a-holes at the CW who decided it was fun to piss with him and leave him hanging rather than just tell him straight up Everwood was cancelled.
I agree (about GB anyways ... I would be one of those that would really miss DSM if it didn't return). I absolutely adore GB ... he is one of the best at his job on primetime tv right now and the fact that he gave me (and everyone else who watched) not only an ending, but a happy ending for "Everwood" makes me want to reitterate this about him even more.
