Wouldn't surprise me, though it's a mistake (well, FOX makes a lot of mistakes). It won't succeed, no matter what they do, but it hasn't had a full season, and after all--they should have canceled T:SCC after its initial run, and they didn't. And look how well that worked out!
It's a dead show walking, in any timeslot. They may still pull the plug, but how many times have we seen underperforming shows get renewed, then crash and burn in the second season?
Renewal would be great for those who are enjoying it, but it's no victory--not unless the ratings went way up, and it got renewed for S3. Veronica Mars actually got through three seasons, and we don't call that a success--because it wasn't. Actually, wasn't VM doing better in the demo than Dollhouse at this point in its run?
In the meantime, many far better shows with far better ratings never got this level of consideration.
Originally posted by pisher: Wouldn't surprise me, though it's a mistake (well, FOX makes a lot of mistakes). It won't succeed, no matter what they do, but it hasn't had a full season, and after all--they should have canceled T:SCC after its initial run, and they didn't. And look how well that worked out!
It's a dead show walking, in any timeslot. They may still pull the plug, but how many times have we seen underperforming shows get renewed, then crash and burn in the second season?
Renewal would be great for those who are enjoying it, but it's no victory--not unless the ratings went way up, and it got renewed for S3. Veronica Mars actually got through three seasons, and we don't call that a success--because it wasn't. Actually, wasn't VM doing better in the demo than Dollhouse at this point in its run?
In the meantime, many far better shows with far better ratings never got this level of consideration.
Joss Whedon = Squeaky Wheel.
I have no personal grudge against Dollhouse, unlike you against 95% of the shows on TV , but I can't understand how FOX could consider Dollhouse's ratings worthy of renewal when it can hold only ~60% of the audience its premiere attracted. I mean it's even doing worse than TSCC by now. It's in the higher HUT slot but only has a few thousand more viewers and about the same demo.
Seems like a joke to me. FOX has made mistakes i agree. But even on drugs i can't see FOX doing this. Renew it? This show should've been already taken off the air.
The only reason Fox would renew Dollhouse is to keep Joss Whedon happy. But I doubt it will.
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Originally posted by robert: Seems like a joke to me. FOX has made mistakes i agree. But even on drugs i can't see FOX doing this. Renew it? This show should've been already taken off the air.
I have no personal grudge against Dollhouse, unlike you against 95% of the shows on TV
And you love me for it.
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but I can't understand how FOX could consider Dollhouse's ratings worthy of renewal when it can hold only ~60% of the audience its premiere attracted.
And its premiere ratings sucked, let's not forget.
People get sucked into memes--here's one--"Joss Whedon keeps getting screwed over by 20th Century Fox". Nonsense. Joss Whedon got 100% of his really big breaks from that media giant--would be known as little more than a script doctor without it--and his first two shows ran seven and five seasons, respectively, even though neither ever attracted a very large audience--Buffy wasn't even the biggest show on WB, though I assume it had better demo #'s than 7th Heaven.
He only started to have problems when he tried to go more mainstream--bigger budgets, bigger potential audiences--bigger expectations. But none of his success would have happened without 20th Television backing him to the hilt for almost a decade. He's been one of the most privileged and coddled showrunners of his generation; far and away the most wildly overpraised (which is not to say he deserves no praise).
The meme says Firefly didn't get a fair break. The fact that the movie based on that show did even worse, even though it was done at Universal, apparently didn't persuade a lot of people that it was Firefly itself that failed.
Now Dollhouse is repeating the same pattern, right down to the first ep being reshot. Whedon was distracted by other projects, insisted on directing several episodes in the first batch himself (there are only so many hours in the day), and did not spend enough time making the premise and characters work, which is why he's rejiggering them now--which is actually leading to the ratings going down, because some people feel like they signed on for a different show than the one they're seeing.
This is his fourth show, and you'd think he'd have figured this kind of thing out by now. But apparently not.
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I mean it's even doing worse than TSCC by now. It's in the higher HUT slot but only has a few thousand more viewers and about the same demo.
Yes, but again, T:SCC itself should clearly have been canceled last season, after getting the kind of timeslot and lead-in Dollhouse never did--and still falling steeply, week after week. And yet here it is, getting to show every pointless 'Haven't we seen this before with much better special effects?' episode.
So I can't discount this report, as uncorroborated as it may be, because FOX has made this kind of mistake before. They don't always cancel shows too soon, contrary to popular mythology--they cancel them too late at least as often, and their real problem is greenlighting the wrong shows, and only seeing their mistake after it's too late to fix it.
I mean, Dark Angel ran 42 episodes. That was clearly doomed from the start, but they stuck with it. Yeah, that was James Cameron, and this is Joss Whedon.
People get sucked into memes--here's one--"Joss Whedon keeps getting screwed over by 20th Century Fox". Nonsense.
I really liked Firefly, but I have to agree with you. Whedons problem with Dollhouse is that he loves to waste money, I think there were several budget problems last fall, when FOX still believed in the show. He could've saved the money, (note to all Eliza Dushku fans: don't keep reading), for a better lead actress with more than one face expression.
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Yes, but again, T:SCC itself should clearly have been canceled last season, after getting the kind of timeslot and lead-in.
I really enjoy season 2.2, but I think nobody would have been surprised to see FOX cancel it either last May or last November/December.
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And yet here it is, getting to show every pointless 'Haven't we seen this before with much better special effects?' episode.
This time I have to disagree. The new episodes are a big improvement over the episodes last fall. If you watch it on a regular basis you can really see that Josh Friedman made this episodes thinking there won't be a season 3. (e.g. major character deaths)
Originally posted by Flanders1: He could've saved the money, (note to all Eliza Dushku fans: don't keep reading), for a better lead actress with more than one face expression.
This comment shows a severe lack of knowledge on your part as to why Dollhouse is on the air.
Originally posted by Flanders1: He could've saved the money, (note to all Eliza Dushku fans: don't keep reading), for a better lead actress with more than one face expression.
This comment shows a severe lack of knowledge on your part as to why Dollhouse is on the air.
Well, of course, the role as a "doll" doesn't really help her to show her skills, but I also didn't like Dushku's acting in Buffy, Angel or City by the Sea. But I might as well be the only one with that opinion.
Oh THOUSANDS of people did, and nearly all of them are online.
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but I have to agree with you.
Oh sure, spoil my fun why don't you?
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Whedons problem with Dollhouse is that he loves to waste money,
I know what you mean, but it would be more accurate to say that he feels shortchanged by the industry that elevated other genre storytellers to near-godhood, and can't resist the opportunity to go big whenever the opportunity arises. If you open the piggybank, he'll empty it. Of course, nobody's ever given him a REALLY big piggybank, by Hollywood standards.
It may not be entirely his fault that the show is so expensive--FOX was obviously a willing partner there--but he did make a lot of elementary mistakes that cost him further on down the line. His single biggest mistake was directing early episodes--there would have been time for that later. But he loves to direct his own scripts--and indulging his whims took precedence over getting the writer's room in order.
Kid in a Candystore would be the best metaphor for Joss Whedon doing TV shows for FOX.
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I think there were several budget problems last fall, when FOX still believed in the show. He could've saved the money, (note to all Eliza Dushku fans: don't keep reading), for a better lead actress with more than one face expression.
As was pointed out a bit more harshly than necessary, Dushku got Whedon back in the door at FOX, not the other way around--she'd signed a development deal with them, and they wanted a project built around her. So you can't say she was a terrible choice for this role, because there was no other choice. You can say Whedon chose a very poor vehicle for her talents. But she obviously wanted something more challenging. He'd previously suggested they do a show about Faith, her Buffyverse character, and she'd passed on it--wanted something new, that would prove she's not a one-noter.
Problem--she IS a one-noter. A very attractive and fairly charismatic one-noter. Hey, Marilyn Monroe was a one-noter. So was Clark Gable. It can work in this biz. But Dushku doesn't have that kind of star power, and her looks are already starting to change, and for the worse. I know, harsh, but that's life--we get older. Some of us age better than others. And if what you're selling is sex appeal, that's a problem. Dushku's appeal is her youth, and one that's gone, she's just another couldabeen. People would compare her favorably to Sarah Michelle Gellar and Kirsten Dunst--neither of whom became huge stars either--but both of them have had much better careers, because they're better actors, who can play more than one kind of character.
And actually, Gellar would have been a much better choice for Echo. She could have pulled it off. But that was never going to happen. She wouldn't have gone for it, and Whedon, deep down inside, has always felt she was foisted on him by the suits. He wanted Katie Holmes to play Buffy. So let's just say his casting instincts have never been all that reliable.
So really, the problems were built-into the series from the moment she and Whedon were discussing it at lunch. But Dushku still has a development deal with FOX, and that does make them less inclined to pull the plug early.
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I really enjoy season 2.2, but I think nobody would have been surprised to see FOX cancel it either last May or last November/December.
And yet they didn't. And yet they will.
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This time I have to disagree.
EX-cellent! (rubs hands together and smiles contentedly).
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The new episodes are a big improvement over the episodes last fall.
From my POV, that's definitely true. I'm seeing improvement every week.
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If you watch it on a regular basis you can really see that Josh Friedman made this episodes thinking there won't be a season 3. (e.g. major character deaths)
Well, didn't people start watching this series figuring that John was the only one coming out of it alive, and somehow growing up to look like Christian Bale?
I have never been impressed by this show. I never thought it had any reason for existence, other than to promote a movie I have no interest in seeing that will clearly be much less popular than the earlier movies in this franchise. I think the writing and acting on the show are unimpressive at best, and even the action scenes (now increasingly rare as they try to save money) were not anything to write home about. I think a handful of people have been seeing a lot more than is actually there, and trying desperately to persuade the rest of the world. Particularly when it comes to Summer Glau's acting, but that's nothing new.
I agree Friedman can see what the future holds, but isn't that the whole problem with doing a Terminator series to begin with?
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The difference is that I watched about 7 episodes and found them good, i didn't watch all of them 3 times
But isn't one of the hallmarks of really good television that you CAN watch it multiple times? Hell, not even really good television--how many times have you seen that Gilligan's Island ep where Gilligan dreams he's a vampire? I'm sure I saw that at least ten times as a kid, when it was in non-stop syndication. Ah, the good old days.
But isn't one of the hallmarks of really good television that you CAN watch it multiple times? Hell, not even really good television--how many times have you seen that Gilligan's Island ep where Gilligan dreams he's a vampire? I'm sure I saw that at least ten times as a kid, when it was in non-stop syndication. Ah, the good old days.
Absolutely, nowadays thanks to DVD's, DVR's and Filesharing it is even easier to watch your favorites over and over again, but it always depends on the show and I wouldn't spend 40$ on, in this case, Dollhouse, because I liked it a few years ago.
Sci Fi casts 'Riverworld,' 'The Phantom' Trio join RHI movies being eyed as possible new series By James Hibberd
April 6, 2009
Sci Fi has found lead actors for "Riverworld" and "The Phantom," its upcoming movie events that will serve as trials for possible new series.
"Battlestar Galactica" veteran Tahmoh Penikett and "Smallville" supergirl Laura Vandervoort will star in "Riverworld," and Ryan Carnes ("Desperate Housewives") has been cast as the Phantom.
Penikett is best known for playing Helo on "Battlestar." In "Riverworld," he will play war correspondent Matt Ellman, who is killed along with his fiancee (Vandervoort) but awakens in a mysterious world populated by everyone who has lived on Earth.
Alan Cumming is set to guest star as the Caretaker; Jeananne Goossen and Mark Deklin also have been cast.
In "Phantom," Carnes will play the well-known comic book hero, and Isabella Rossellini will guest star as the villainous Lithia, who is overseeing a mind-control experiment. Additional "Phantom" cast members include Cameron Goodman and Sandrine Holt.
"Riverworld" and "Phantom" will air next year as four-hour movies on Sci Fi. Both are from RHI Entertainment and began production Monday.
Sounds like somebody doesn't think Dollhouse is sticking around.
