Originally posted by meggie: Gossip Girl vs. Reaper. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked to see both shows return,
Much of this has to do with how One Tree Hill performs in its return and whether the Smallville cast is interested in doing more seasons. I can see 3 of the 4 shows returning for stability sake, but not all 4 of them. Only a LONG writer's strike would bring all 4 back.
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but if only one can, it'll be Gossip Girl. Full stop. First, because I think the CW views it as having more storytelling potential. There are already complaints that Reaper has gotten stale and has nowhere to go. You don't run into that problem with a soap for a few years.
Does the 'slow build' theory work for soap operas anymore? Grey's Anatomy built, but it started with a good number. Private Practice started high as well. Ugly Betty started high and is slowly fading. All of those soaps captured their audience from the start; at least enough audience to ease everyone's mind that the show would be renewed. I don't know if a soap opera has a long term chance to 'build from the ground up' anymore because of today's audience mindset. Far too many people today refuse to watch a show at all if they think it might be cancelled in the future. CW/Gossip Girl tried to ease viewers of that worry by giving the show a quick full season order, but it didn't help. I think the days of the slow build soap audience are over. Gossip Girl and Cane don't have a shot because they didn't capture a high enough initial following to free themselves of shunning from those viewers unwilling to watch a soap that isn't 'guaranteed' to go on for years.
Originally posted by Obveeus: ...Ugly Betty started high and is slowly fading...
Here's what I think about Ugly Betty. Its ratings declined but are now holding steady since the execs and creators conceded, by the direction taken this season, it is not much of a soap. It is an extended sitcom, a workplace comedy like Just Shoot Me but with better set design. All the soapy elements fall flat and the actors with no comedy chops like the duds playing, Daniel, Alex and Papa Meade drag it down. But Ugly Betty pops when the other actors get to show their funny.
Does the 'slow build' theory work for soap operas anymore? Grey's Anatomy built, but it started with a good number. Private Practice started high as well. Ugly Betty started high and is slowly fading. All of those soaps captured their audience from the start; at least enough audience to ease everyone's mind that the show would be renewed. I don't know if a soap opera has a long term chance to 'build from the ground up' anymore because of today's audience mindset. Far too many people today refuse to watch a show at all if they think it might be cancelled in the future. CW/Gossip Girl tried to ease viewers of that worry by giving the show a quick full season order, but it didn't help. I think the days of the slow build soap audience are over. Gossip Girl and Cane don't have a shot because they didn't capture a high enough initial following to free themselves of shunning from those viewers unwilling to watch a soap that isn't 'guaranteed' to go on for years.
Well said. I completely agree, the "need time to find an audience" excuse is no longer valid especially for a show that was very much hyped and had a prime time slot from the beginning.
One Tree Hill managed to build from 2 mil to 5 mil by season 2. I think that's what The CW is expecting with Gossip Girl. Clearly it won't happen while the show is against tough demo competition. I just wonder if there's a market for the teenage drama anymore. It seems like the last big high-school-drama was The OC but it lost viewers over it's run.
But if I know Dawn Ostroff, I guarantee she will keep Gossip Girl around for awhile. She will continue to beat a dead horse.
Originally posted by songstolove: I just wonder if there's a market for the teenage drama anymore. It seems like the last big high-school-drama was The OC but it lost viewers over it's run.
There is so much soap on TV now (thank you, ABC ) and teenagers watch it along with older audiences. That's killed the network shows specifically about teenagers. Cable shows like the quality college soap Greek do what CW hoped to much, much better.
There is so much soap on TV now (thank you, ABC ) and teenagers watch it along with older audiences. That's killed the network shows specifically about teenagers. Cable shows like the quality college soap Greek do what CW hoped to much, much better.
When you think about it, just about every show is a soap these days or at least has soapy elements.
Originally posted by Obveeus: ...Ugly Betty started high and is slowly fading...
Here's what I think about Ugly Betty. Its ratings declined but are now holding steady since the execs and creators conceded, by the direction taken this season, it is not much of a soap. It is an extended sitcom, a workplace comedy like Just Shoot Me but with better set design. All the soapy elements fall flat and the actors with no comedy chops like the duds playing, Daniel, Alex and Papa Meade drag it down. But Ugly Betty pops when the other actors get to show their funny.
Yeah unlike Betty la fea UB is a comedy show not a dramedy not a soap. So you need funny characters and actors who can play commedy roles. Unforunately you're right some roles have been wrongly cast. Daniel is supposed to be a center character but Mabius doesn't have what it takes to create a center character. He should take lessons (and other too) from Becki Newton, Mark Indelicato or Michael Urie. They are supposed to be supporting characters but in fact they are the resons i watch the show
There is so much soap on TV now (thank you, ABC ) and teenagers watch it along with older audiences. That's killed the network shows specifically about teenagers. Cable shows like the quality college soap Greek do what CW hoped to much, much better.
When you think about it, just about every show is a soap these days or at least has soapy elements.
I totally disagree with you. There are many shows that use soapy elements, but there are few true prime time soaps . And not even one that pulls great numbers.
Maybe GA could be considered a succesfull soap although it's not 100% a soap
Does the 'slow build' theory work for soap operas anymore? Grey's Anatomy built, but it started with a good number. Private Practice started high as well. Ugly Betty started high and is slowly fading. All of those soaps captured their audience from the start; at least enough audience to ease everyone's mind that the show would be renewed. I don't know if a soap opera has a long term chance to 'build from the ground up' anymore because of today's audience mindset. Far too many people today refuse to watch a show at all if they think it might be cancelled in the future. CW/Gossip Girl tried to ease viewers of that worry by giving the show a quick full season order, but it didn't help. I think the days of the slow build soap audience are over. Gossip Girl and Cane don't have a shot because they didn't capture a high enough initial following to free themselves of shunning from those viewers unwilling to watch a soap that isn't 'guaranteed' to go on for years.
Well said. I completely agree, the "need time to find an audience" excuse is no longer valid especially for a show that was very much hyped and had a prime time slot from the beginning.
One Tree Hill managed to build from 2 mil to 5 mil by season 2. I think that's what The CW is expecting with Gossip Girl. Clearly it won't happen while the show is against tough demo competition. I just wonder if there's a market for the teenage drama anymore. It seems like the last big high-school-drama was The OC but it lost viewers over it's run.
But if I know Dawn Ostroff, I guarantee she will keep Gossip Girl around for awhile. She will continue to beat a dead horse.
The OC was a big high school drama only for one season. My opinion is that such shows from the start cannot expect big numbers. I doubt many 40-50 year old watch this type of shows
yeah I tend to agree, all most every show on air have soapy elements, but they are not 100% soap, even GA, I would put GA more in the drama or dramedy department, but not in the soaps department, I think the only truly 100% soap on right now is cane
Originally posted by Devilz_0: yeah I tend to agree, all most every show on air have soapy elements, but they are not 100% soap, even GA, I would put GA more in the drama or dramedy department, but not in the soaps department, I think the only truly 100% soap on right now is cane
IMO there are only two 100% soaps currently: Cane and OTH. B&S GA and GG also have a lot of soapy elements but they're not 100% soap
What about Dirty Sext Money? They seem like a show in that soapy fantasy world. Reminds me a lot of Dynasty.
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Originally posted by robert:
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Originally posted by Devilz_0: yeah I tend to agree, all most every show on air have soapy elements, but they are not 100% soap, even GA, I would put GA more in the drama or dramedy department, but not in the soaps department, I think the only truly 100% soap on right now is cane
IMO there are only two 100% soaps currently: Cane and OTH. B&S GA and GG also have a lot of soapy elements but they're not 100% soap
Originally posted by Keith1990: What about Dirty Sext Money? They seem like a show in that soapy fantasy world. Reminds me a lot of Dynasty.
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Originally posted by robert:
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Originally posted by Devilz_0: yeah I tend to agree, all most every show on air have soapy elements, but they are not 100% soap, even GA, I would put GA more in the drama or dramedy department, but not in the soaps department, I think the only truly 100% soap on right now is cane
IMO there are only two 100% soaps currently: Cane and OTH. B&S GA and GG also have a lot of soapy elements but they're not 100% soap
As much as i disliked Dynasty i think it's a big offense to compare that show with the extremely bad DSM. Anyway DSM tries to be a dramedy not a soap
I haven't seen Cane yet but if it's the most "soapy" type then I must check it out. If any show deserves to be renewd on CBS it's Cane. From what I've heard it's not a bad show and not many people have seen it. I would love to see it after CSI. That would be an intersting mix. If CBS keeps airing a procedural after CSI they're doing no better than what NBC did with the sitcoms. Procedurals are starting to show age but while they're still strong CBS needs to look for the next big show while they still have a massive lead-in.
) and teenagers watch it along with older audiences. That's killed the network shows specifically about teenagers. Cable shows like the quality college soap Greek do what CW hoped to much, much better.