Originally posted by WlcmLAPD: If those numbers are acceptable to NBC, then it has no hope of ever climbing out of 4th place.
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Originally posted by Justin: In the defense for every show last night, it was Thanksgiving eve, which means low numbers. And actually, Rosie Live did fairly okay in NBC standards, considering those numbers are about what over half of the NBC shows do today, that's acceptable.
Clearly these are acceptable. Does it honestly look like NBC has put any effort into getting into even 3rd place? To me, it looks like they care very little. It looks more like as long as they get their big fat pay checks, they're happy.
Posts: 2650 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Remember, here only real success has been Daytime TV, when the hut levels are lower and a smaller audience is acceptable.
Perhaps it should have been Pink Lady and Rosie.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: I thought Rosie would do much better than this. Forget about it going to a series.
I don't believe she is as relatable now as she was when she hosted her own talk show. She's just not the same person or doesn't have the same persona.
In my opinion, no major network would be happy with a 1.2 demo and around 4 million viewers. Not even for a Friday. NBC may give breaks to some low rated shows since they have very few mid-season options, but they aren't on purpose trying to tank their network with horrible ratings and shows that have no shot of making it. If NBC was happy with low rated shows, MOWE and LJ would have gotten renewed. They were shows NBC liked a lot but their ratings didn't justify a renewal. KR bombed after it got its season renewal. Before it, it performed decently.
NBC expected Rosie Live! to hit with audiences. They promoted it as a holiday event of the season to lead up to a mid-season series. The problem is the audience didn't respond to the promos and the resulting show was lackluster, to put it mildly.
quote:
Originally posted by Justin:
Clearly these are acceptable. Does it honestly look like NBC has put any effort into getting into even 3rd place? To me, it looks like they care very little. It looks more like as long as they get their big fat pay checks, they're happy.
Ah man, TV audiences suck now in days. The variety shows used to get 60-70 million viewers. Rosie Live brought back lots of memories although it should've been done like Sonny & Cher.
Rosie Live had some majorly disappointing ratings and now after looking at the ratings I felt like I wasted an hour of my life although the show was good.
I should've just watched either Bones or CBS' Happy Hour of Christine and Gary, which surprised me with their ratings. Their ratings were higher than expected.
CM and NY is just a dominant force and if you aren't watching either of these two shows or at least one of the other CBS procedurals then you minus well not watch TV.
Bones is a beast even on Thanksgiving Eve and this is FOX's #2 right now.
Serials and fantasy are not doing well on TV right now. Reality is the worst genre out there and people have given in to it.
Originally posted by Hawk-eye: I'm watching that "dog show" that is on early on Thanksgiving every year - otherwise known as the Detroit Lions and whomever is stomping on them. I'm all for tradition but the NFL, has to be thinking about doing something about what is going to be a ratings disaster.
I posted yesterday that CNBC did a story yesterday that the NFL is thinking about taking the T-Day game away from Detroit. Wouldn't it have been great to get something like the Pittsburgh-New Engand game instead.
I would watch a variety show. They could show the other talents of start, like the blonds from pushing Daisies singing or Hugh Laurie's band. I'm sure stars would come on to promote their new movie or whatever. Or do some skits like Johnny Carson did.
Happy turkey Bird - Ham - Duck - Turducked - Fish - pizza - hagus - grits - suffed seaweed - or whatever floats your boat day to all.
Posts: 92 | Location: Seattle | Registered: 05 November 2008
BlueLick brings up an interesting point that gets brought up a lot when scripted shows underperform. There is a thought that somehow unscripted shows have taken the place of scripted material and that reality shows have killed scripted material. I really don't think that is happening. If you look at the fall schedules, they are not dominated by reality TV. In fact, most of the reality shows are left for mid-season filler or summer when TV viewership is less and it is a cheap alternative to expensive scripted that historically doesn't do very well and that does not bring in large profit margins for the networks.
If you look at NBC, the only reality shows they have on schedule is BL and DOND. DOND has been limited to Fridays and soon will be off the schedule. BL is contained to two hours, one facing Idol in January. BL is there because scripted material would have a hard time against Idol and wouldn't bring in the profit margins BL brings in. January they have some more reality options, but these are filler, besides Howie Do It. By March, most will be gone. Scripted material has not fared well on Friday. Howie Do It is the best option in this case. NBC is left with BL, Dateline (if newsmagazines are considered "reality"), and Howie Do It. 5 hours of reality is not overkill.
CBS only has two reality hours, the Amazing Race and Survivor. You could throw in 60 Minutes I guess since it is a newsmagazine. 3 hours isn't overkill either. Mid-season, the only unscripted option coming in is Million Dollar Password and that is a limited 6 week series during the holidays. It will be done by January.
FOX is the most dominated by reality. It has reality on Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturday. Mid-season, it has Secret Millionaire coming in. However, like Million Dollar Password it is a six episode order and will be done by January. Idol Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Scripted fans get two hours back on Friday of scripted material mid-season. They also get Thursday at 8 PM back. Leaving Idol, Saturdays, HK, and HITW the only reality options. Saturdays have reality on them because it is a better option than running scripted material. HITW is on Sundays at 7 PM because the football overrun is done and running scripted material there for half a season would be costly with few benefits. 5 hours isn't overkill either.
ABC has their reality offerings of DWTS, EM:HE, AFV, Fridays with WS, Supernanny, and 20/20. That brings the total to 7 1/2 hours. If you include now cancelled Opportunity Knocks, that is 8 1/2 hours. Again, not that dominant as it is used to fill in for low rated Friday and as good counterprogramming to high rated football games, spots where scripted program wouldn't do well and wouldn't bring in the profit margins. If you look at mid-season they have The Bachelor and True Beauty as filler. It's hard to launch a scripted show in between DWTS seasons, so unscripted is its best bet. True Beauty is a six episode order that will be done by March. Scripted material will be in that spot by March. Border Security is likely to face Idol. Putting scripted material here, especially new material, isn't a good option and unscripted is the best choice.
CW has reality containted to just one night and the rest is scripted material (besides the Friday ANTM encores). Even CW, which pulls in lower ratings than the main four, has resisted the urge to put cheaper unscripted material in place of scripted material spots.
Originally posted by WlcmLAPD: BlueLick brings up an interesting point that gets brought up a lot when scripted shows underperform. There is a thought that somehow unscripted shows have taken the place of scripted material and that reality shows have killed scripted material. I really don't think that is happening. If you look at the fall schedules, they are not dominated by reality TV. In fact, most of the reality shows are left for mid-season filler or summer when TV viewership is less and it is a cheap alternative to expensive scripted that historically doesn't do very well and that does not bring in large profit margins for the networks.
If you look at NBC, the only reality shows they have on schedule is BL and DOND. DOND has been limited to Fridays and soon will be off the schedule. BL is contained to two hours, one facing Idol in January. BL is there because scripted material would have a hard time against Idol and wouldn't bring in the profit margins BL brings in. January they have some more reality options, but these are filler, besides Howie Do It. By March, most will be gone. Scripted material has not fared well on Friday. Howie Do It is the best option in this case. NBC is left with BL, Dateline (if newsmagazines are considered "reality"), and Howie Do It. 5 hours of reality is not overkill.
CBS only has two reality hours, the Amazing Race and Survivor. You could throw in 60 Minutes I guess since it is a newsmagazine. 3 hours isn't overkill either. Mid-season, the only unscripted option coming in is Million Dollar Password and that is a limited 6 week series during the holidays. It will be done by January.
FOX is the most dominated by reality. It has reality on Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturday. Mid-season, it has Secret Millionaire coming in. However, like Million Dollar Password it is a six episode order and will be done by January. Idol Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Scripted fans get two hours back on Friday of scripted material mid-season. They also get Thursday at 8 PM back. Leaving Idol, Saturdays, HK, and HITW the only reality options. Saturdays have reality on them because it is a better option than running scripted material. HITW is on Sundays at 7 PM because the football overrun is done and running scripted material there for half a season would be costly with few benefits. 5 hours isn't overkill either.
ABC has their reality offerings of DWTS, EM:HE, AFV, Fridays with WS, Supernanny, and 20/20. That brings the total to 7 1/2 hours. If you include now cancelled Opportunity Knocks, that is 8 1/2 hours. Again, not that dominant as it is used to fill in for low rated Friday and as good counterprogramming to high rated football games, spots where scripted program wouldn't do well and wouldn't bring in the profit margins. If you look at mid-season they have The Bachelor and True Beauty as filler. It's hard to launch a scripted show in between DWTS seasons, so unscripted is its best bet. True Beauty is a six episode order that will be done by March. Scripted material will be in that spot by March. Border Security is likely to face Idol. Putting scripted material here, especially new material, isn't a good option and unscripted is the best choice.
CW has reality containted to just one night and the rest is scripted material (besides the Friday ANTM encores). Even CW, which pulls in lower ratings than the main four, has resisted the urge to put cheaper unscripted material in place of scripted material spots.
WlcmLAPD, I totally agree with what you just said and it was all well stated and was the truth.
Reality shows have tuned some people out from watching scripted programming like serials. Up until this decade serial and fantasy shows used to do very well in the ratings like Dallas for serials and Fantasy Island for fantasy. Procedurals is the only genre really working right now for scripted programming and multi-cam comedies on CBS. Everything else is tanking really fast.
Reality shows aren't bringing in the ratings, but they have definitely changed the way we watch TV, which was why I was happy to see the variety hour comeback for one night, but man in bombed big time.
NBC may only succeed with Howie Do It, Got Talent, and maybe Superstars of Dance and everything else is a filler like you said and will never return.
CBS' reality slate is the most successful right now b/c the other networks rely heavily on reality competitions to get ratings. CBS doesn't overkill either with their slate so its perfect they way they air everything.
ABC has struggled the most with reality, but they are relying on past hits like AFV and several others to get ratings.
FOX, may surprise with Secret Millionaire, but FOX has driven out the most reality shows since 1999 and they have too many reality programs. Its like a high-budgeted MyNetworkTV or FOX Reality. They do have Idol. I'm just saying!
CW well I don't talk about this network anymore, but Tyra's Top Model has been a success for them.
MNTV is succeeding with Street Patrol and Jail right now.
Overall unscripted TV is outweighing scripted TV right now if you exclude CBS.
Maybe its a good thing Rosie failed so NBC wouldn't overkill it, but I still think the networks can succeed with variety hours with different personalities. I think Rosie killed Rosie Live based on her bad reputation the past few years.
ABC Wins A18-49 in November Sweep; CBS First in Households & P2+ Viewers
The 2008 November Sweep is over, and ABC has now won four consecutive November Sweeps in the A18-49 measure that advertisers value the most. Helped out by some well skedded stunts and strong series performance, the Alphabet won with an average of 3.21 in A18-49, while CBS finished second with a 3.07 average, NBC finished in third place with 2.81, and FOX finished fourth with 2.70. At the bottom are the mininets starting with Univision finishing at 1.56 (27 nights only), The CW ending the Sweep with a 0.92 A18-49 average, and MyNetworkTV in last averaging 0.59 in A18-49.
In households and viewers, CBS finished first, with ABC second, NBC third, FOX fourth, Univision fifth, The CW sixth and MyNetworkTV last in seventh.
MyNetworkTV and Univision are the only two networks showing any year-over-year improvement. MyNetworkTV is up +39% in A18-49, and up +59% in viewers from last year. Univision finished up 3% in viewers from last year. All other networks finished down from last year, with The CW experiencing the worst year-over-year fall-off in A18-49 demo (down -17%) and in viewers (down -23%).
Overall for the seven networks, the A18-49 demo was down -10% from last year and viewers were down -6%.
The data for this and last year are all final Nielsen numbers except for last night and except for Univision who's numbers over last three nights are FAST Nationals. All Sweep calculations incorporate Nielsen final numbers for primetime programming, Monday to Saturday 8-11 pm, and Sunday 7-11 pm. For daytime over-runs into primetime and primetime run-pasts into latenight (e.g. sports coverage, award shows), only the primetime portion of the program numbers have been factored in. For networks that split programs into multiple segments of sustaining and non-sustaining coverage, the rating for the sustaining portion applies to the entire program broadcast.
NBC: 8:00pm Christmas in Rockefeller Center (special): 9.52, 2.0 9:00pm The Apprentice: Martha Stewart: 6.00, 2.1 10:00pm Law & Order: 12.81, 3.9
Fox: 8:00pm That '70s Show: 6.58, 3.2 8:30pm Stacked: 5.11, 2.4 9:00pm Trading Spouses: Meet Your New Mommy: 6.58, 3.0
UPN: 8:00pm America's Next Top Model: 5.22, 2.5 9:00pm Veronica Mars: 2.99, 1.2
The WB: 8:00pm One Tree Hill: 3.19, 1.5 9:00pm Gilmore Girls (R): 2.84, 1.2
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Wednesday 12/01/04:
ABC: 8:00pm Lost: 17.03, 5.8 9:00pm Nick & Jessica's Family Christmas: (special): 12.51, 5.1 10:00pm Wife Swap: 9.49, 4.1
CBS: 8:00pm Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (R, special): 15.02, 5.3 9:00pm The King of Queens: 13.10, 5.3 9:30pm Center of the Universe: 10.51, 4.1 10:00pm CSI: NY: 14.63, 5.4
Posts: 2650 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
While people like to talk in sweeping generalities about why some shows succeed and why some fail (usually with the advantage of 20-20 hindsight by the way) at the end of the day no one can predict. The biggest relative successes of the last few years have come as surprises.
All network shows are weaker and hits in the magnitude that networks require to make them financially viable going to be harder and harder to come by. The networks are weaker and will only continue to decline as the audience fragments more and viewers make their own programming decisions via technologies like the DVR and on-demand viewing. Saturday night is dead as far as network viewing is concerned and Friday is well on its way and those days are not coming back despite the daily protestations here. Does anyone seriously believe this trend is not going to continue to other nights as more and more viewing alternatives and vehicles come along?
NBC's numbers may be particularly bad compared to other nets, but really, they are simply a precursor to what the others will be facing in the not too distant future. The CBS-style of programming is currently the most successful, but that audience isn't immune to the trends (or to mortality )
Networks as they have existed since the 1950s are dead. The bodies just haven't been buried yet.
quote:
Originally posted by WlcmLAPD: BlueLick brings up an interesting point that gets brought up a lot when scripted shows underperform. There is a thought that somehow unscripted shows have taken the place of scripted material and that reality shows have killed scripted material.
Posts: 1664 | Location: Great White North | Registered: 10 November 2006
CBS and ABC Fighting it Out for Dominance in Week 10; MyNetworkTV Poised to Overtake The CW
After three nights of Week 10, CBS has a microscopic lead over ABC in A18-49, while the Alphabet net is ahead of the Eye in average P2+ viewers.
In A18-49s, FOX is running third, NBC fourth, UNI fifth, The CW is sixth, just one basis point ahead of MyNetworkTV.
In viewers, FOX is running third, NBC fourth, UNI fifth, MyNetworkTV is sixth and The CW is mired in last place.
I get a strong feeling that this will be the first week where MyNetworkTV outrates The CW in both demo and viewers, and this advantage may continue until the New Year when The CW goes back to skedding more original programming in their line-up.
Week 10, First Three Nights (2 Finals, 1 Prelim)
# Network A18-49 (%YOY) Millions of Viewers (%YOY)
====================================================
1. CBS 3.43 (+1%) 12.797 (+6%)
2. ABC 3.40 (-27%) 13.367 (-14%)
3. FOX 2.83 (-18%) 7.563 (-15%)
4. NBC 2.30 (-27%) 6.420 (-22%)
5. UNI 1.65 (-12%) 4.305 (+1%) <- 2 nights only
6. CW 0.54 (-60%) 1.219 (-58%)
7. MNT 0.53 (+21%) 1.385 (+25%) <- 2 nights only
YOY = Year-Over-Year increase/decrease to Week 9 last year.
Year-Over-Year 7-Network Demo/Viewer Growth(+)/Erosion(-)
Night A18-49 +/- Viewers +/-
=========================================================
Monday A: -13% V: -8%
Tuesday A: -15% V: -9%
Wednesday A: -47% V: -31%
Originally posted by PaulC: While people like to talk in sweeping generalities about why some shows succeed and why some fail (usually with the advantage of 20-20 hindsight by the way) at the end of the day no one can predict. The biggest relative successes of the last few years have come as surprises.
All network shows are weaker and hits in the magnitude that networks require to make them financially viable going to be harder and harder to come by. The networks are weaker and will only continue to decline as the audience fragments more and viewers make their own programming decisions via technologies like the DVR and on-demand viewing. Saturday night is dead as far as network viewing is concerned and Friday is well on its way and those days are not coming back despite the daily protestations here. Does anyone seriously believe this trend is not going to continue to other nights as more and more viewing alternatives and vehicles come along?
NBC's numbers may be particularly bad compared to other nets, but really, they are simply a precursor to what the others will be facing in the not too distant future. The CBS-style of programming is currently the most successful, but that audience isn't immune to the trends (or to mortality )
Networks as they have existed since the 1950s are dead. The bodies just haven't been buried yet.
quote:
Originally posted by WlcmLAPD: BlueLick brings up an interesting point that gets brought up a lot when scripted shows underperform. There is a thought that somehow unscripted shows have taken the place of scripted material and that reality shows have killed scripted material.
If you want to compare nets to the 1950s, the numbers were quite smaller than they are today. A real comparison would be the 1980s or 1990s. There's no question of declining network viewership, but what is in examination is how the nets handle it. They can be like NBC, and not do jack about it, or can be like CBS, and try hard to still be successful. And despite what some think, networks are not just going to go down to zero viewers, it will be less and less and eventually level off. Presently, I don't see too much more of a decline this TV season. Considering the economy, I don't think there will be a mad rush of DVR purchases or new fancy cable purchases. There will always be some traditional viewers of TV.
Posts: 2650 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
Nope, they won't go to zero any time soon, but they are going to drop to a point that they are indistinguishable from the hundred or so other options on the cable box. We may already be there for many people. The simple fact that there are shows with a 2.5 demo that are subject to hot debate on here weekly about whether they are successful or not tells a person all they need to know about what direction to old network model is heading.
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Originally posted by Justin: And despite what some think, networks are not just going to go down to zero viewers, it will be less and less and eventually level off. Presently, I don't see too much more of a decline this TV season. Considering the economy, I don't think there will be a mad rush of DVR purchases or new fancy cable purchases. There will always be some traditional viewers of TV.
Posts: 1664 | Location: Great White North | Registered: 10 November 2006
Originally posted by Marc Berman: A Colbert Christmas: The Greatest Gift of All (Comedy Central) Sunday, November 23 Viewers: 2.33 million HH: 1.4/2 18-49: 1.0/2 25-54: 0.9/2
Mr. Stephen Colbert vs. Miss Rosie O'Donnell
Mr. Colbert: 1.0 A18-49, 2,330,000 viewers
Miss O'Donnell: 1.2 A18-49, 5,004,000 viewers
Advantage, Miss O'Donnell.
Perhaps the executives at Comedy Network might be keen on giving Miss O'Donnell's agent a call to talk up a variety series...and one with no seven-second delay.
However, I think that the Peacock liked what it saw last night in terms of Miss O'Donnell's 'Toast of the Town' execution. Thanks to Mr. Silverman for broadcasting the pilot of 'Rosie Live' and giving the show a good beta test. This edgy variety series (who else will Miss O'Donnell welcome through that door on stage?) just might work for the network on Saturday nights at 10 pm, to help build pre-tune-in of the A18-49s for 'Saturday Night Live'.
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