Originally posted by Crimson: Ok, thanks. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. On one hand it appears the Networks do not care about Friday evenings, and Moonlight doesn't hurt GW or Numbers, and it doesn't hurt CBS for the night. I think we agree, 13 episodes to see how it wil fair with more competition.
I actually do think its hurt Numb3rs a bit and perhaps even Ghost Whisperer because the total viewership in the key timeslot of the whole night is now down by 3 million viewers, dragging down Numb3rs. Ghost Whisperer probably also benefited from Close to Home fans last year but no serious damage has been done. Still, the show shouldn't be airing there in the fall. Keep it for midseason if something new completely bottoms out.
Ok now you have freakin lost me. How the hell can Moonlight hurt GW ratings. It is on before Moonlight. That makes no sense at all. Hey we all know you hate Moonlight but that statement about GW ratings hurts Moonlight is just insane logic
Really? Many of GW's fans were once and some are still C2H fans. When it was canceled many left with it, hoping that any show that replaced it would fail miserably and many if not all went to ABC's WMC. So there is the explanation for why Moonlight has been dragging down GW, by simply being its replacement when it should not have been axed yet.
If you are a fan of GW you watch it. not abandon it because the lead-out got cancelled.
Originally posted by Crimson: Ok, thanks. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. On one hand it appears the Networks do not care about Friday evenings, and Moonlight doesn't hurt GW or Numbers, and it doesn't hurt CBS for the night. I think we agree, 13 episodes to see how it wil fair with more competition.
I actually do think its hurt Numb3rs a bit and perhaps even Ghost Whisperer because the total viewership in the key timeslot of the whole night is now down by 3 million viewers, dragging down Numb3rs. Ghost Whisperer probably also benefited from Close to Home fans last year but no serious damage has been done. Still, the show shouldn't be airing there in the fall. Keep it for midseason if something new completely bottoms out.
Ok now you have freakin lost me. How the hell can Moonlight hurt GW ratings. It is on before Moonlight. That makes no sense at all. Hey we all know you hate Moonlight but that statement about GW ratings hurts Moonlight is just insane logic
Really? Many of GW's fans were once and some are still C2H fans. When it was canceled many left with it, hoping that any show that replaced it would fail miserably and many if not all went to ABC's WMC. So there is the explanation for why Moonlight has been dragging down GW, by simply being its replacement when it should not have been axed yet.
That makes NO sense whatsoever. If you're a fan of a show, why would you stop watching it simply because its lead-out is gone? All you'd do is either try the replacement or flip the channel for the 9p slot. If you give up one show because the network canceled another show you like, then a. you may be 5 years old and acting out of spite, or b. you were never a fan of the remaining show if you're willing to ditch it so easily and for no reason.
No one would say it was a good idea to cancel C2H (didn't this show have production problems by the way? I don't think ratings were the only reason), but it is done now, no point to compare ML viewers to C2H.
New CBS shows didn't do so well this year, so with the strike that should be enough to bring back ML for 13 episodes at least.
Posts: 611 | Location: NYC | Registered: 02 November 2007
Originally posted by Crimson: Ok, thanks. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. On one hand it appears the Networks do not care about Friday evenings, and Moonlight doesn't hurt GW or Numbers, and it doesn't hurt CBS for the night. I think we agree, 13 episodes to see how it wil fair with more competition.
I actually do think its hurt Numb3rs a bit and perhaps even Ghost Whisperer because the total viewership in the key timeslot of the whole night is now down by 3 million viewers, dragging down Numb3rs. Ghost Whisperer probably also benefited from Close to Home fans last year but no serious damage has been done. Still, the show shouldn't be airing there in the fall. Keep it for midseason if something new completely bottoms out.
Unfortunately, you're right. I like the show, but if it's not performing it should be replaced. Maybe some cable channel like Lifetime will pick it up, since the show is mostly viewed by females over 30.
Thanks for the enlightening discussion. I'm not really into the network ratings game, so I've learned some things on this thread.
Umm,
Sweatie u have no right getting into it here.
u have like 9 comments.
um..okay. someone made a comment about how the moonlight fans are coming to the thread, and I said that this is true because the thread was linked to on a couple of MOONLIGHT boards, and Total Eclispe said I was WRONG (with caps)because she's a member of a few boards and didn't see it. I never claimed anyone was encouraged to come here and defend the show, I just posted that the reason there was a flood of Moonlight posts was due to this thread being on some of the show's fansites. What's the big deal?
PS. I can post my opinion and defend myself whether I have ONE or HUNDRED posts, but thanks for pointing my post count out, it really matters.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Crimson,
Posts: 39 | Location: USA | Registered: 26 April 2008
Originally posted by Crimson: Ok, thanks. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. On one hand it appears the Networks do not care about Friday evenings, and Moonlight doesn't hurt GW or Numbers, and it doesn't hurt CBS for the night. I think we agree, 13 episodes to see how it wil fair with more competition.
I actually do think its hurt Numb3rs a bit and perhaps even Ghost Whisperer because the total viewership in the key timeslot of the whole night is now down by 3 million viewers, dragging down Numb3rs. Ghost Whisperer probably also benefited from Close to Home fans last year but no serious damage has been done. Still, the show shouldn't be airing there in the fall. Keep it for midseason if something new completely bottoms out.
Unfortunately, you're right. I like the show, but if it's not performing it should be replaced. Maybe some cable channel like Lifetime will pick it up, since the show is mostly viewed by females over 30.
Thanks for the enlightening discussion. I'm not really into the network ratings game, so I've learned some things on this thread.
Originally posted by Zitrone: No one would say it was a good idea to cancel C2H (didn't this show have production problems by the way? I don't think ratings were the only reason), but it is done now, no point to compare ML viewers to C2H.
New CBS shows didn't do so well this year, so with the strike that should be enough to bring back ML for 13 episodes at least.
I agree .. All this childish tantrums is annoying . Let's get back to the productive discussions and not the nitpicking . I think CBS will renew ML for at least 13 episode but who knows ? I've given up on CBS for the most part but whatever is going to happen is going to happen and bitching about it is not going to change it. I speak out of experience ( see all my posts on The Unit or ask mushu LOL )
Originally posted by Red: This just in: Everything is down year to year, with the exception of what, The Office?
Sorry to butt in here, but I wanted to make an observation. I don't usually watch Friday night shows (mainly because I work, but also because there is very little that appeals to me), but there is a very valid point being made here that the level of internet and DVR penetration has significantly impacted almostall of the networks programming. Combine that with the usual spring drop in ratings, and the fallout from the strike, and yes, most of the ratings are down significantly from last year. With a couple of slight exceptions, of course. I believe The Office is up slightly from last year, but another show that has shown significant growth from last year is Medium. Even in a killer time slot, it has rebounded from a season ranking of #65 last season to somewhere around #40 (or maybe even high 30s) this season. Also it's weekly average in HH has increased from around 8M last season to 9.4M this season. It's demo rating has grown from an average 2.9 to 3.2. And granted, that is largely due to NBCs decision to hold it until mid-season, but still, it's performance this season has been pretty impressive compared to last season.
So although a few shows have shown improvement this season, the vast majority of them have seen a decrease in viewers. Sadly, I think this is a trend that we are not likely to see end anytime soon, unless the internet blows up and DVRs are outlawed. With the exception of an occasional breakout hit like American Idol, Grey's Anatomy, or Desperate Housewives, I think the days of seeing a show that can consistently pull in over 20M viewers are all but gone.
Mediumfan, isn't Medium up year to year? And isn't Law and Order? And isn't How I Met Your Mother? And isn't 2.5 Men? Lots of shows are still kicking just fine.
You're right, mushu. I was just noting that a lot of shows have seen a significant drop this season due to DVR and internet usage. There are several that have shown improvement, and I was just using Medium as an example(mainly because I know the numbers for that one better than most of the others ). I may have overstated my case a little bit, but you get the point, right?
One more thing about all these Moonlight fans who are raving about what a HUGE success it is. That, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Fans think that because there are websites and message boards everywhere that it's a huge hit. But networks and advertisers don't give a hang about that stuff. They care about numbers. So your arguments about that here are basically moot. Fans of Friday Night Lights could argue that that show is a raging success based on their discussions on fan boards, and critical acclaim, but again, it's a show that has struggled to survive ratings wise, even though lots of people agree that it's a great show. But if it ain't got the numbers, the networks are gonna toss it. Look how hard NBC had to struggle to find a way to keep it on the air for another season. To the fans, it's a smash, but the advertisers don't care about it if it doesn't post decent numbers. So raving like a fanboy isn't going to win any arguments here. Believe me, I know.
I for one have never fully understood why CBS cancelled CTH, but maybe it was because it rated too old and never had any buzz.
As for ML - it gets okay ratings and demos, and with ratings down across the board for almost everything CBS can't know whether any new show they are cooking up now would do better - in the current viewing climate they might do much worse. At least ML has some buzz and a loyal viewer base. So I say renew it for next season and let it prove itself against whatever the other networks will be putting up against it. If it then fades away - well, at least it will have been given a fair chance.
Originally posted by Zitrone: No one would say it was a good idea to cancel C2H (didn't this show have production problems by the way? I don't think ratings were the only reason), but it is done now, no point to compare ML viewers to C2H.
New CBS shows didn't do so well this year, so with the strike that should be enough to bring back ML for 13 episodes at least.
I agree .. All this childish tantrums is annoying . Let's get back to the productive discussions and not the nitpicking . I think CBS will renew ML for at least 13 episode but who knows ? I've given up on CBS for the most part but whatever is going to happen is going to happen and bitching about it is not going to change it. I speak out of experience ( see all my posts on The Unit or ask mushu LOL )
I hope CBS does renew ML for 13 to give it a chance, and to see what if any new competition it will have from the other Networks.
Posts: 39 | Location: USA | Registered: 26 April 2008
Originally posted by dippy bumble bee: Ha! I am new here and this place sure is feisty!
I for one have never fully understood why CBS cancelled CTH, but maybe it was because it rated too old and never had any buzz.
As for ML - it gets okay ratings and demos, and with ratings down across the board for almost everything CBS can't know whether any new show they are cooking up now would do better - in the current viewing climate they might do much worse. At least ML has some buzz and a loyal viewer base. So I say renew it for next season and let it prove itself against whatever the other networks will be putting up against it. If it then fades away - well, at least it will have been given a fair chance.
Were not usally like this but for some reason (Moonlight)a bunch of little new poster came and started fighting.
Originally posted by Zitrone: No one would say it was a good idea to cancel C2H (didn't this show have production problems by the way? I don't think ratings were the only reason), but it is done now, no point to compare ML viewers to C2H.
Actually, I would say that. CBS only premiered 4 hour-long shows this year. Without canceling or moving anything at the end of the season, they really only had one opening (Tues at 10). Amazing Race was cut down to one race and Jericho was initially canceled then held until Spring to give them two more hours. Close to Home was one of the lowest rated shows in viewer numbers and the lowest rated hour-long scripted show in the demo. It simply made sense to cancel it. Given how much CBS is attacked for being stagnant and too reliant on procedurals, it would have made no sense for them to keep their lowest rated show instead of trying something new. Did their new shows work out like they had hoped? No, but that means they made bad decisions in choosing the new shows, not in canceling the old one.
Originally posted by Red: This just in: Everything is down year to year, with the exception of what, The Office?
Sorry to butt in here, but I wanted to make an observation. I don't usually watch Friday night shows (mainly because I work, but also because there is very little that appeals to me), but there is a very valid point being made here that the level of internet and DVR penetration has significantly impacted almostall of the networks programming. Combine that with the usual spring drop in ratings, and the fallout from the strike, and yes, most of the ratings are down significantly from last year. With a couple of slight exceptions, of course. I believe The Office is up slightly from last year, but another show that has shown significant growth from last year is Medium. Even in a killer time slot, it has rebounded from a season ranking of #65 last season to somewhere around #40 (or maybe even high 30s) this season. Also it's weekly average in HH has increased from around 8M last season to 9.4M this season. It's demo rating has grown from an average 2.9 to 3.2. And granted, that is largely due to NBCs decision to hold it until mid-season, but still, it's performance this season has been pretty impressive compared to last season.
So although a few shows have shown improvement this season, the vast majority of them have seen a decrease in viewers. Sadly, I think this is a trend that we are not likely to see end anytime soon, unless the internet blows up and DVRs are outlawed. With the exception of an occasional breakout hit like American Idol, Grey's Anatomy, or Desperate Housewives, I think the days of seeing a show that can consistently pull in over 20M viewers are all but gone.
Mediumfan, isn't Medium up year to year? And isn't Law and Order? And isn't How I Met Your Mother? And isn't 2.5 Men? Lots of shows are still kicking just fine.
You're right, mushu. I was just noting that a lot of shows have seen a significant drop this season due to DVR and internet usage. There are several that have shown improvement, and I was just using Medium as an example(mainly because I know the numbers for that one better than most of the others ). I may have overstated my case a little bit, but you get the point, right?
One more thing about all these Moonlight fans who are raving about what a HUGE success it is. That, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Fans think that because there are websites and message boards everywhere that it's a huge hit. But networks and advertisers don't give a hang about that stuff. They care about numbers. So your arguments about that here are basically moot. Fans of Friday Night Lights could argue that that show is a raging success based on their discussions on fan boards, and critical acclaim, but again, it's a show that has struggled to survive ratings wise, even though lots of people agree that it's a great show. But if it ain't got the numbers, the networks are gonna toss it. Look how hard NBC had to struggle to find a way to keep it on the air for another season. To the fans, it's a smash, but the advertisers don't care about it if it doesn't post decent numbers. So raving like a fanboy isn't going to win any arguments here. Believe me, I know.
Ok now do not speak for all ML fans. I like ML just fine but have never said it was a huge success by any means . ML is struggling and it needs to jump up in ratings/demos . I agree on that . Its ratings/demos were not good considering all the hype and buzz it got and while Nina may like the show CBS has to be disappointed with its ratings/demos but I do think ML might be spared and given a limited run BUT it is merely an assumption .
Originally posted by Red: This just in: Everything is down year to year, with the exception of what, The Office?
Sorry to butt in here, but I wanted to make an observation. I don't usually watch Friday night shows (mainly because I work, but also because there is very little that appeals to me), but there is a very valid point being made here that the level of internet and DVR penetration has significantly impacted almostall of the networks programming. Combine that with the usual spring drop in ratings, and the fallout from the strike, and yes, most of the ratings are down significantly from last year. With a couple of slight exceptions, of course. I believe The Office is up slightly from last year, but another show that has shown significant growth from last year is Medium. Even in a killer time slot, it has rebounded from a season ranking of #65 last season to somewhere around #40 (or maybe even high 30s) this season. Also it's weekly average in HH has increased from around 8M last season to 9.4M this season. It's demo rating has grown from an average 2.9 to 3.2. And granted, that is largely due to NBCs decision to hold it until mid-season, but still, it's performance this season has been pretty impressive compared to last season.
So although a few shows have shown improvement this season, the vast majority of them have seen a decrease in viewers. Sadly, I think this is a trend that we are not likely to see end anytime soon, unless the internet blows up and DVRs are outlawed. With the exception of an occasional breakout hit like American Idol, Grey's Anatomy, or Desperate Housewives, I think the days of seeing a show that can consistently pull in over 20M viewers are all but gone.
Mediumfan, isn't Medium up year to year? And isn't Law and Order? And isn't How I Met Your Mother? And isn't 2.5 Men? Lots of shows are still kicking just fine.
You're right, mushu. I was just noting that a lot of shows have seen a significant drop this season due to DVR and internet usage. There are several that have shown improvement, and I was just using Medium as an example(mainly because I know the numbers for that one better than most of the others ). I may have overstated my case a little bit, but you get the point, right?
One more thing about all these Moonlight fans who are raving about what a HUGE success it is. That, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Fans think that because there are websites and message boards everywhere that it's a huge hit. But networks and advertisers don't give a hang about that stuff. They care about numbers. So your arguments about that here are basically moot. Fans of Friday Night Lights could argue that that show is a raging success based on their discussions on fan boards, and critical acclaim, but again, it's a show that has struggled to survive ratings wise, even though lots of people agree that it's a great show. But if it ain't got the numbers, the networks are gonna toss it. Look how hard NBC had to struggle to find a way to keep it on the air for another season. To the fans, it's a smash, but the advertisers don't care about it if it doesn't post decent numbers. So raving like a fanboy isn't going to win any arguments here. Believe me, I know.
ITA with you, and CBS understands this better than most....it's called JERICHO. Tons of activist online fans, but didn't translate well into the real world of ratings.
Posts: 39 | Location: USA | Registered: 26 April 2008
Originally posted by Zitrone: No one would say it was a good idea to cancel C2H (didn't this show have production problems by the way? I don't think ratings were the only reason), but it is done now, no point to compare ML viewers to C2H.
New CBS shows didn't do so well this year, so with the strike that should be enough to bring back ML for 13 episodes at least.
I agree .. All this childish tantrums is annoying . Let's get back to the productive discussions and not the nitpicking . I think CBS will renew ML for at least 13 episode but who knows ? I've given up on CBS for the most part but whatever is going to happen is going to happen and bitching about it is not going to change it. I speak out of experience ( see all my posts on The Unit or ask mushu LOL )
I hope CBS does renew ML for 13 to give it a chance, and to see what if any new competition it will have from the other Networks.
All right, I'm going to put my two cents in. From what I've read over the past months, most of the people here don't like cult series. Some of you try your hardest to single out people that you don't agree with (e.g dumont, anybody that likes Veronica Mars, and Moonlight[considering this])
Moonlight is not the strongest program, as we can all tell. It drops from it's lead-in and it brings down CBS' Friday nights. It has shown consistent numbers. It has showed that it can hold it's ground, even though there is no competition as most of you eagerly point out in your posts. The ratings aren't the best. Should be it be canceled? I don't know. Personally, I think it's doing fine and no use in continuing to argue about it.
This is my only post that's going to be relevant to this topic, but I just wanted to get it out there.
I look forward to discussing ratings with all of you in the future(that doesn't start an argument) because I really do like this board, just not how it gets out of control like this.
