The one getting the highest 18-49 (by however small a margin) in the toughest timeslot, is the biggest problem? Numb3rs routine sizeable jump out of Moonlight, The Ex-List, Threshold, and Close to Home (in 18-49) in the past demonstrated that people were well aware of it being on. Now, whether Numb3rs should be in any more danger than Ghost Whisperer is another question. Even though Numb3rs is the one that got its order cut, I'm sure all of those decisions will come down to $$$ issues that none of us know about. CBS does make ancillary money off of Ghost Whisperer though. It's a co-production, just like Criminal Minds.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I went over this last week, but again this week, Numbers is the most watched on this block. It seems to me that Ghost Whisperer is the main problem on this night. It's limiting Medium's potential which in turn isn't doing much to help Numbers. If anything, Ghost Whisperer, not being a CBS Production, should be the one facing episode cutbacks until CBS can figure out how to stop the bleeding.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: line-up of Ghost Whisperer (Viewers: #1, 8.01 million; A18-49: #1, 2.0 rating/7 share), compatible Medium (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #1, 1.9/ 6) and expected-to-be concluding Numb3rs (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #2, 1.8/ 6), which had its full season episode order slashed from 22 to 16 last week. Both Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs remain down year-to-year.
Originally posted by ThinkingOfYou: Production company(s) Sander/Moses Productions (2005–present) Touchstone Television (2005–2007) ABC Studios (2007–present) Paramount Television (2005–2006) CBS Paramount Television (2006–2009) CBS Television Studios (2009–present)
Well, that certainly cleared everything up
But thanks for digging out that info.
Posts: 2822 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
You bring up a very good point. ABC's best chance at Friday success is reality shows on Fridays. It is what works for them. In my opinion, UB on Friday was a poor scheduling decision.
That being said, moving UB to another night is an even worse scheduling move, in my opinion. It's dying on Fridays and there's no reason to believe that moving to another night will perk up the ratings. The interest isn't there and it will just take a spot where a mid-season show could show growth and find an audience. ABC has to just burn off the episodes on Friday or perhaps Saturday mid-season and conclude the series with a special send off episode to wrap up all of the loose ends.
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Originally posted by yankeesrj12:
Sure it's not a winning performance by any means, but the slow climb in the demo is worth watching. I think once Ugly Betty is done ABC will slide Supernanny back to 9pm (where it can get a 1.8-2.0 demo) and put Wife Swap at 8pm where it will do numbers equal to or above Supernanny's current performance.
Sales of shows "Medium," "Criminal Minds," "Ghost Whisperer," "Everybody Hates Chris," and "Numb3rs," to other networks as well as rate increases for pay-TV service Showtime more than offset a 5 percent drop in advertising sales.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I thought it was an ABC Studio production. Last year, ABC went after it because of the fact it was tied to ABC.
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Originally posted by ThinkingOfYou: Oh, by the way, Ghost Whisperer is a CBS production.
So it's a co-production now? The 2009 looks like it was recent. Either way, Medium and Numbers are fully owned by CBS Productions and from this chart, Ghost Whisperer isn't. So that brings all sorts of licensing, financial, and syndication issues to deal with that the other two shows don't have to get caught up in.
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Originally posted by ThinkingOfYou: Production company(s) Sander/Moses Productions (2005–present) Touchstone Television (2005–2007) ABC Studios (2007–present) Paramount Television (2005–2006) CBS Paramount Television (2006–2009) CBS Television Studios (2009–present)
CW really should think about moving SN to fridays. That would be a really strong lineup for them. And Life Unexpected should've been premiered after VD.
CM is another one of those ABC Studios/CBS co-productions according to IMDB. Seems like CBS has a trend forming. If a show does well, they want in.
As for Numbers, if this is true and the ad sales are going up for Numbers, then I'm really confused to why they are ending it. They have a positive net increase on a lower watched night. How expensive can Numbers actually be?
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Originally posted by Red: Recent news item about CBS 3Q
Sales of shows "Medium," "Criminal Minds," "Ghost Whisperer," "Everybody Hates Chris," and "Numb3rs," to other networks as well as rate increases for pay-TV service Showtime more than offset a 5 percent drop in advertising sales.
Yes, reducing episodes is an indicator of cancelling a show. I wasn't arguing what was happening, I was arguing the logic of it. A .2 demo advantage and lower viewership doesn't really make up for everything. It's even worse when it's starting out the night.
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Originally posted by ThinkingOfYou: Ghost Whisperer is the best performer of the night, and CBS recognise that. It won't be getting cancelled, and NUMB3RS will. Deal with it.
This season, 15 of 16 GW and Medium episodes have hit a 1.9 demo or higher. Zero of eight Numb3rs episodes have hit a 1.9 or higher. 1.9 may seem like an arbitrary number, but the point is that Numb3rs has been, pretty much every single week this season, a little weaker than the other two shows. If something must get cut, that's most definitely the one.
Whether anything at all should get cut is another discussion.
Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: You bring up a very good point. ABC's best chance at Friday success is reality shows on Fridays. It is what works for them. In my opinion, UB on Friday was a poor scheduling decision.
That being said, moving UB to another night is an even worse scheduling move, in my opinion. It's dying on Fridays and there's no reason to believe that moving to another night will perk up the ratings. The interest isn't there and it will just take a spot where a mid-season show could show growth and find an audience. ABC has to just burn off the episodes on Friday or perhaps Saturday mid-season and conclude the series with a special send off episode to wrap up all of the loose ends.
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Originally posted by yankeesrj12:
Sure it's not a winning performance by any means, but the slow climb in the demo is worth watching. I think once Ugly Betty is done ABC will slide Supernanny back to 9pm (where it can get a 1.8-2.0 demo) and put Wife Swap at 8pm where it will do numbers equal to or above Supernanny's current performance.
I agree that UB should just end this year. Moving it to another night won't work with a serialized show. The interest in it was dying last year-I'm sure that why ABC moved it to Friday. ABC only continued it to have enough episodes for syndication purposes.
Like many shows that originated from an outside production house, Criminal Minds included, CBS wouldn't pick it up (or at least gave indications they wouldn't) unless it became a co-producer. The 2009-present simply notes the name change of CBS's tv production house from CBS Paramount Television to CBS Television Studios, it's been a producer since pickup. I don't know how they split up the revenue from it, but I will say a couple of years ago, when the show was garnering numbers a lot closer to what it's doing now than what it did last season, there was a blurb about ABC picking up a bigger chunk of the production budget to guarantee renewal. So while it's true that revenue might be sliced up to some extent, cost is also shared, something else that goes into the bottom line.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: So it's a co-production now? The 2009 looks like it was recent. Either way, Medium and Numbers are fully owned by CBS Productions and from this chart, Ghost Whisperer isn't. So that brings all sorts of licensing, financial, and syndication issues to deal with that the other two shows don't have to get caught up in.
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Originally posted by ThinkingOfYou: Production company(s) Sander/Moses Productions (2005–present) Touchstone Television (2005–2007) ABC Studios (2007–present) Paramount Television (2005–2006) CBS Paramount Television (2006–2009) CBS Television Studios (2009–present)
They should but if SN really is in it's final season then perhaps it's best to finish its run on Thursday and then develop something that can pair up with Smallville on Fridays, creating a form of sci fi Fridays. They'd have to compete with Syfy, but I think there's room for two lineups.
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Originally posted by robert: CW really should think about moving SN to fridays. That would be a really strong lineup for them. And Life Unexpected should've been premiered after VD.
Yes, GW's decline is the biggest single problem but then again it is the best choice for anchor of the nite and if the other shows are dependent on it, that's the way it goes.
Medium is still strong creatively but as I have posted before it is out of brand for CBS despite their ownership of it and thus despite significant promotion ratings have been confined to the friday nite framework and not the larger CBS aud. My guess is there is mild disappointment that it has not grown at 9, but probably also an executive exhale that the network change was navigated with some success.
Numb3rs is the least visible and seemingly the deadest of the 3, though the ratings have picked up a bit in recent weeks. In my view it is not compatible with Medium, but on the other hand is largely running unopposed in the hour so that helps offset that.
The ep cut tells me they had planned on cancelling it anyway and with lower cost alternatives in the wings, there was probably a 'let's get on with it' mentality when the early ratings were weak. CBS probably believes GW and Medium are better suited to compete in the tougher hours and the declining friday nite environment.
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Originally posted by Red: The one getting the highest 18-49 (by however small a margin) in the toughest timeslot, is the biggest problem? Numb3rs routine sizeable jump out of Moonlight, The Ex-List, Threshold, and Close to Home (in 18-49) in the past demonstrated that people were well aware of it being on. Now, whether Numb3rs should be in any more danger than Ghost Whisperer is another question. Even though Numb3rs is the one that got its order cut, I'm sure all of those decisions will come down to $$$ issues that none of us know about. CBS does make ancillary money off of Ghost Whisperer though. It's a co-production, just like Criminal Minds.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I went over this last week, but again this week, Numbers is the most watched on this block. It seems to me that Ghost Whisperer is the main problem on this night. It's limiting Medium's potential which in turn isn't doing much to help Numbers. If anything, Ghost Whisperer, not being a CBS Production, should be the one facing episode cutbacks until CBS can figure out how to stop the bleeding.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: line-up of Ghost Whisperer (Viewers: #1, 8.01 million; A18-49: #1, 2.0 rating/7 share), compatible Medium (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #1, 1.9/ 6) and expected-to-be concluding Numb3rs (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #2, 1.8/ 6), which had its full season episode order slashed from 22 to 16 last week. Both Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs remain down year-to-year.
Posts: 2822 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
That's a fair evaluation. Like I stated in another post, GW saw similar declines from season 2 to season 3. It only averaged 8.6 million viewers 2 seasons ago, when everything was considerably higher, and they still renewed. Then they stunted their way into big ratings growth in season 4. I would guess, given the history, that they'll try something similar next season, and keep Medium right along with it, see what happens and hope they're in better shape to make changes if trends don't reverse. The deterioration of Sunday night probably ensured that they keep this lineup mostly intact, because there is no obvious choice of something else to move here, and I don't think they want to abandon scripted on the night.
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Originally posted by Bruce: All 3 shows share in the difficulties.
Yes, GW's decline is the biggest single problem but then again it is the best choice for anchor of the nite and if the other shows are dependent on it, that's the way it goes.
Medium is still strong creatively but as I have posted before it is out of brand for CBS despite their ownership of it and thus despite significant promotion ratings have been confined to the friday nite framework and not the larger CBS aud. My guess is there is mild disappointment that it has not grown at 9, but probably also an executive exhale that the network change was navigated with some success.
Numb3rs is the least visible and seemingly the deadest of the 3, though the ratings have picked up a bit in recent weeks. In my view it is not compatible with Medium, but on the other hand is largely running unopposed in the hour so that helps offset that.
The ep cut tells me they had planned on cancelling it anyway and with lower cost alternatives in the wings, there was probably a 'let's get on with it' mentality when the early ratings were weak. CBS probably believes GW and Medium are better suited to compete in the tougher hours and the declining friday nite environment.
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Originally posted by Red: The one getting the highest 18-49 (by however small a margin) in the toughest timeslot, is the biggest problem? Numb3rs routine sizeable jump out of Moonlight, The Ex-List, Threshold, and Close to Home (in 18-49) in the past demonstrated that people were well aware of it being on. Now, whether Numb3rs should be in any more danger than Ghost Whisperer is another question. Even though Numb3rs is the one that got its order cut, I'm sure all of those decisions will come down to $$$ issues that none of us know about. CBS does make ancillary money off of Ghost Whisperer though. It's a co-production, just like Criminal Minds.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I went over this last week, but again this week, Numbers is the most watched on this block. It seems to me that Ghost Whisperer is the main problem on this night. It's limiting Medium's potential which in turn isn't doing much to help Numbers. If anything, Ghost Whisperer, not being a CBS Production, should be the one facing episode cutbacks until CBS can figure out how to stop the bleeding.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: line-up of Ghost Whisperer (Viewers: #1, 8.01 million; A18-49: #1, 2.0 rating/7 share), compatible Medium (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #1, 1.9/ 6) and expected-to-be concluding Numb3rs (Viewers: #1, 8.16 million; A18-49: #2, 1.8/ 6), which had its full season episode order slashed from 22 to 16 last week. Both Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs remain down year-to-year.
The 2009 looks like it was recent. Either way, Medium and Numbers are fully owned by CBS Productions and from this chart, Ghost Whisperer isn't. So that brings all sorts of licensing, financial, and syndication issues to deal with that the other two shows don't have to get caught up in.
