Originally posted by mushu_jj: Aren't they changing the show runners for the second half of the season? My guess is this could really help the program become its own show.
Originally posted by Bruce: I think the marriage of NCIS LA to the original will prove to be a double edged sword. The show's early existence will have been secured, but LA appears more to more of an adjunct to the original, barely a spinoff. Compare this handling to the evolution of the L&O's and the CSI's. Debate the differences in the franchises as you will, but LA is shaping up as the overprotected first son. I have only seen 2 eps, but my guess is that it could have gotten this demo in any number of hours as it should slant a bit younger than the orig and doesn't need the viewer totals to reach the desired demo.
Great points. CBS can certainly say that they have one of the more successful new shows this season, but I think when you greenlight a spinoff, you really ought to aim a little higher than finding something that can pull serviceable retention when aired directly out of the original. CSI and L&O extended their brand across multiple nights, even Grey's made a spinoff that kept Wednesday from being a disaster area for a couple half seasons before settling for that secondary role.
Agreed and the show will likely be left in that Tuesday slot for the time being since they don't want to risk having it air on its own. Its for this reason that I believe Criminal Minds is Sunday bound next year into its own spinoff.
I think there were reasons to re-make it. Visually, there was a lot to do to update the look of the show, thanks to special effects which have come pretty far since the 1980's. Also, story wise (and I was a big fan of the original mini series) I thought the original was a bit heavy handed at times.
So, yes, I think there was a reason to take a stab at a re-make. I'm a little 50/50 on the results. I think the new show looks amazing. Story wise... some of the updated plots are good, others not so much.
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Originally posted by pisher:
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Well, if the trend continues, it will drop just under 9 million and about a 2.9 demo for episode #4.
I have yet to view the latest episode, but if it continues the storyline I think it will be a one season & done series.
For me, this V is a simple REMAKE, unlike BattleStar was a complete reimaging. V needed that Reimaging to be successful.
Yeah, but was there any real reason to remake V at all?
And to drain all the fun out of it in the process?
I think its far too early in the season to argue ABC has failed this season.
It's too early to say ABC has failed for mid-season, but it's definitely failed this fall.
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Hell, getting two players any year is an accomplishment.
I'd agree, if they weren't such minor players, and there's no reason to assume they'll even hold up longterm. I mean, how good is Courtney Cox's plastic surgeon?
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The only difference is that ABC is nearing the point where it needs to find that next big show.
And to get to that, it's going to have to shuffle the deck frequently--which means canceling the failed attempts to find that next big show.
I think there were reasons to re-make it. Visually, there was a lot to do to update the look of the show, thanks to special effects which have come pretty far since the 1980's.
I don't think that's ever a good reason to update a show. EVER. I'm still pissed at George Lucas for updating the special effects on Star Wars. It's not about technology, it's about STORYTELLING.
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Also, story wise (and I was a big fan of the original mini series) I thought the original was a bit heavy handed at times.
You've got it backwards--the 80's V was a campy sexy lark. This one is a ponderous full-of-itself drag.
Why not just do a new show based on the same general idea? Why chain yourself to an earlier concept? Well, basically just to get your pitch listened to, and good sampling for the pilot. The people who sold this remake got paid--it was ABC that got swindled. It's their job to anticipate new trends, not repackage old ones.
Remakes should comprise a VERY small percentage of shows and films--right now, they seem to comprise more than 50%. And that percentage keeps growing.
Although no one has had a BIG development season since, but CBS is the only net to be consistent with producing at least one big series each year. Last year was the Mentalist 2007 was BBT 2006 was SHARK, but I think the battle with WOODS and CBS helped kill that in '08 2005 launched Criminal Minds, Ghost Whisperer & HIMYM 2004 CSI: NY & Numb3rs 2003 2.5 Men, Cold Case, NCIS began 2002 - CSI: M, WAT, Still Standing
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Originally posted by pisher: ABC's last decent development season was 2004-'05.
It gave them Desperate Housewives, Lost, and Greys Anatomy (in midseason). Dancing With the Stars (adapted from a British series) started in Summer '05.
They are still leaning heavily on those four shows today.
We looked at this string of successes, and figured ABC was going to become the dominant network.
I think ABC is at that point now. And that's my concern with ABC is that they need big shows and they are programming shows that really don't fit that profile. Copper and Happy Town are more smaller show concepts. The Deep End could become a bigger show but it will need a lot of promotion and attention.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The only difference is that ABC is nearing the point where it needs to find that next big show.
But will the viewers that are leaving the show NOW, resample it when it returns? If not, then it is too little, too late.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: Aren't they changing the show runners for the second half of the season? My guess is this could really help the program become its own show.
The Deep End sounds like another Greys copycat. We don't need another one of those. Happy Town sounds like fun but not a sustaining concept. Overall, ABC mainly needs to focus on finding respectable players for them. The hit will come with time as long as they continue to develop quality programs and they've done that better than the other networks for a while now.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I think ABC is at that point now. And that's my concern with ABC is that they need big shows and they are programming shows that really don't fit that profile. Copper and Happy Town are more smaller show concepts. The Deep End could become a bigger show but it will need a lot of promotion and attention.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The only difference is that ABC is nearing the point where it needs to find that next big show.
Most of the programs you mentioned were never massive demo players. Most were decent time period players and some were simply time period hits (see Shark, Still Standing). I can't name a big demo hit player that's been established in the past few years. House is the last one to come to mind.
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Originally posted by TV-aholic: Although no one has had a BIG development season since, but CBS is the only net to be consistent with producing at least one big series each year. Last year was the Mentalist 2007 was BBT 2006 was SHARK, but I think the battle with WOODS and CBS helped kill that in '08 2005 launched Criminal Minds, Ghost Whisperer & HIMYM 2004 CSI: NY & Numb3rs 2003 2.5 Men, Cold Case, NCIS began 2002 - CSI: M, WAT, Still Standing
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Originally posted by pisher: ABC's last decent development season was 2004-'05.
It gave them Desperate Housewives, Lost, and Greys Anatomy (in midseason). Dancing With the Stars (adapted from a British series) started in Summer '05.
They are still leaning heavily on those four shows today.
We looked at this string of successes, and figured ABC was going to become the dominant network.
That's exactly why ABC needs to push that. It's a concept that fits ABC's profile extremely well and is instantly marketable. It pushes back. After all, wasn't Private Practice a Grey's copycat at one point.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The Deep End sounds like another Greys copycat. We don't need another one of those.
I agree. ABC has Modern Family, Cougar Town leading the way, with on-the fence series of The Middle, V and FF.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: I think its far too early in the season to argue ABC has failed this season. Hell, getting two players any year is an accomplishment. The only difference is that ABC is nearing the point where it needs to find that next big show. I still think we could end up with the Middle being a decent player and Flash Forward has tweaked some lately so who knows. Happy Town, the Deep End, and Copper don't sound like overly promising projects.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I have to agree with Pisher that ABC won't find the next Lost and they really shouldn't be looking for one. What ABC should be developing is their next great drama (actually more than one would be preferable because they can't rely on DH and GA forever), regardless of the genre. Something that will bring in a mass audience and they can build as their signature show(s). V and Flash Forward aren't going to be that show. I think ABC got so into the idea of the next Lost that somehow the signature drama plan escaped them. I don't see anything in their Fall of 2010 development so far that could be that show either. Perhaps Hotscotch but I'll have to see the casting.
For all of ABC's great fall efforts, it looks like ABC is going to walk away with Modern Family and a utility player in Cougar Town and not much else.
The copycats save for PP haven't worked all that well for them. See the likes of Dirty Sexy Money (excellent program by the way- TV-aholic needs to post his last critique), Eli Stone, October Road, Men in Trees, etc. For the record though, ABC botched almost all of these programs and their time slots.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: That's exactly why ABC needs to push that. It's a concept that fits ABC's profile extremely well and is instantly marketable. It pushes back. After all, wasn't Private Practice a Grey's copycat at one point.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The Deep End sounds like another Greys copycat. We don't need another one of those.
Just because they are serial dramas doesn't mean they are all Grey's Anatomy copy cats. Comparing Eli Stone to Grey's Anatomy is a real stretch. That's like saying The Unit was a CSI copycat because it's procedural based.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The copycats save for PP haven't worked all that well for them. See the likes of Dirty Sexy Money (excellent program by the way- TV-aholic needs to post his last critique), Eli Stone, October Road, Men in Trees, etc. For the record though, ABC botched almost all of these programs and their time slots.
With a few exceptions, CBS has not been about the BIG massive numbers. They are about consistent numbers each night, in each time slot.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: Most of the programs you mentioned were never massive demo players. Most were decent time period players and some were simply time period hits (see Shark, Still Standing). I can't name a big demo hit player that's been established in the past few years. House is the last one to come to mind.
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Originally posted by TV-aholic: Although no one has had a BIG development season since, but CBS is the only net to be consistent with producing at least one big series each year. Last year was the Mentalist 2007 was BBT 2006 was SHARK, but I think the battle with WOODS and CBS helped kill that in '08 2005 launched Criminal Minds, Ghost Whisperer & HIMYM 2004 CSI: NY & Numb3rs 2003 2.5 Men, Cold Case, NCIS began 2002 - CSI: M, WAT, Still Standing
