But I do think that one of these shows - OTH, SPN, SV - won't survive this year and unfortunately for the OTH fans, I think it'll be OTH. SV actually helped their Friday schedule and SPN is close to syndication so WB might put down their collective foot to keep it for other financial benefits.
OT will end only if other actors refuse to come back or if CW calls it quits. OTH does much better in the W18-34 demo than SV and SN and it's a much better fit for CW's darling GG.
It does but nowhere near GoGi's level of W18-34. But as I said, if the CW must choose among these three, I think it would be OTH that would go. SV helped the CW with its Friday ratings and both Tom Welling and Erica Durance are signed for S10. SPN is doing better in the A/W18-34 demos this year thanks to its lead-in, both Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles are signed for S6 and it's close to syndication that might bring the WB more money so the WB might be willing to sacrifice ratings for syndication money. And besides, their female oriented shows would never stand up against GA/The Office, no way, no how. That's why I think that these two shows will survive one more year. I'm not saying that OTH is doing bad or worse in ratings. I don't know if the actors are signed for more seasons. But I would say that there are fewer points speaking for this show than for the other two.
I think that their decision to keep these shows or cancel them won't be most likely ratings related, though. I think TPTB will be looking at how profitable they are in general, not just how much advertisement money they garner. They can afford that because all three shows are the WB's.
Not a rhetorical question. I hear the business aspects you mention, but I think you may be overestimating the ER and Southland promotional potential and perhaps Regina King as a star in the sense of promoting a show around her on a net like TNT. Where did these elements get the show last year beyond the ER platform somewhat boosting the premiere?
I mean if we're talking about airing 6 episodes, sure, why not use the cable arm of the group to take one last stab at making the show work, just questioning the likelihood of meaningful results. Also TNT can state whatever goals it wants but to me it remains a very inside the box net whose aud gravitates to the old money like ER, Charmed, L&O. The Closer will probably join them later.
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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: I don't know if you are asking me this or if it's a rhetorical question. However, I'll provide further clarification on my position on why I agree with Marc that TNT should consider Southland (as quick as possible since it's probably off topic for a ratings analysis).
TNT does run ER already so the audience is used to John Wells shows. There could be some cross promotion there with ER repeats and Southland. As you mentioned Dark Blue and Saving Grace, Saving Grace is ending and Dark Blue is on the chopping block. Everything I've read has stated that TNT is looking for real life dramas with a female lead, critically acclaimed actress. Southland is a real life cop drama with Regina King as the main focus who is getting critical buzz. Southland also has six episodes ready to go and programmable that are fully invested, looking for a home. Since it's a WB show and TNT is a WB owned network, putting it on provides a real chance to make a return on the investment already made with a reduced risk. They are airing their own material that's paid for by NBC.
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Originally posted by Bruce:
I don't think the show is within TNT's brand. Only recently have L&O reruns been bumped from the primetime lineup. The Closer is basically a very traditional type of show. Saving Grace is a one-star vehicle and Dark Blue, which I found unimpressive, is a smooth glitzy production. Recent syndicated rollouts are CSI NY and now Numb3rs. How does Southland fit into this?
Posts: 2846 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Originally posted by GMYERS: Great rebound for GW and Medium but Numbers is obviously failing.
Numb3rs is not failing. What you see is an effect of the baseball game.
I was judging Numbers against the performance of GW and Medium which also went up against baseball last week and this week but they went up this week while Numbers did not.
I like Numb3rs but I must admit that the whole premise is growing old. I used to watch it for the interaction between the Eppes brothers but now I'm mostly hooked because of Colby and David and their snark. It's obvious that the whole season is headed towards Charlie and Amita's wedding and it would be a nice closure for the whole show. Together with Don quitting FBI and David taking over his post.
Sometimes you can't be too concerned with what people are suggesting. Fringe will not be moving to friday, for the reasons you mentioned.
There's really no way to be sure what's going to happen with Fringe.
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It became the fall sacrificial lamb because they were prioriting Glee and they are hellbent on trying to make something out of Lie to Me, or at least developing an aud so they can move it around as well.
They saw some hopeful trends, and decided to see if they could promote it into a competitive Thursday entry. And I think they could have--if it hadn't declined so badly this season.
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Fox can see the wasteland that friday is becoming
It can also see other network dramas surviving there for years and years and years......
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and Fringe can be re-habbed once away from the shows you mentioned and out of the neighborhood of FlashForward. I think the launch of that show temporarily hurt Fringe. Its decline may benefit Fringe.
I really don't see how.
Scheduling is not the answer. PROGRAMMING is the answer. Fringe doesn't need a better timeslot nearly as much as it needs better writers.
Law & Order (Viewers: #2, 7.23 million; A18-49: #2, #2, 1.5/ 6)
Nice to see Law and Order stay stable in viewership, but build 0.3 demo points from last week. If NBC can stay patient all season, I'm guessing Law and Order could build even more. It already appears that it may have put a dent in Ghost Whisperer.
NBC needs to really reconsider what they're advertising this fall. By this point, Mondays are no longer necessary for advertising. They're a complete joke. The following is what NBC needs to be utilizing its advertising $ on: The Biggest Loser, SVU, Comedy Thursday, Law and Order, and Mercy. The rest shouldn't even be a factor and the Saturday lineup could reflect this with encores of Community, P&R, Mercy, and the original Law and Order or SVU.
The answer to this question is simple. Fringe was never ready for Thursday. It was a time period hit last year. It needed more time to develop more of an audience because clearly a lot of last year's crowd didn't put it over their regular Thursday lineup. I'm sure it would've been a competitive force on Tuesdays with Hell's Kitchen for a lead in.
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Originally posted by pisher:
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Sometimes you can't be too concerned with what people are suggesting. Fringe will not be moving to friday, for the reasons you mentioned.
There's really no way to be sure what's going to happen with Fringe.
quote:
It became the fall sacrificial lamb because they were prioriting Glee and they are hellbent on trying to make something out of Lie to Me, or at least developing an aud so they can move it around as well.
They saw some hopeful trends, and decided to see if they could promote it into a competitive Thursday entry. And I think they could have--if it hadn't declined so badly this season.
quote:
Fox can see the wasteland that friday is becoming
It can also see other network dramas surviving there for years and years and years......
quote:
and Fringe can be re-habbed once away from the shows you mentioned and out of the neighborhood of FlashForward. I think the launch of that show temporarily hurt Fringe. Its decline may benefit Fringe.
I really don't see how.
Scheduling is not the answer. PROGRAMMING is the answer. Fringe doesn't need a better timeslot nearly as much as it needs better writers.
Sometimes you can't be too concerned with what people are suggesting. Fringe will not be moving to friday, for the reasons you mentioned.
There's really no way to be sure what's going to happen with Fringe.
quote:
It became the fall sacrificial lamb because they were prioriting Glee and they are hellbent on trying to make something out of Lie to Me, or at least developing an aud so they can move it around as well.
They saw some hopeful trends, and decided to see if they could promote it into a competitive Thursday entry. And I think they could have--if it hadn't declined so badly this season.
quote:
Fox can see the wasteland that friday is becoming
It can also see other network dramas surviving there for years and years and years......
quote:
and Fringe can be re-habbed once away from the shows you mentioned and out of the neighborhood of FlashForward. I think the launch of that show temporarily hurt Fringe. Its decline may benefit Fringe.
I really don't see how.
Scheduling is not the answer. PROGRAMMING is the answer. Fringe doesn't need a better timeslot nearly as much as it needs better writers.
I watched only the season premiere and didn't see a material difference in the product from last year to this. My guess is that the show hasn't been rejected as much as deprioritized.
Do you really think Fringe can live for years and years on friday nite?
And, yes, I think FlashForward created a comparison that was unflattering to Fringe.
Posts: 2846 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
In fact, if TNT is interested, I think it's very likely that they might do the programming plan that you mentioned of airing the six fully made and invested episodes with the option of ordering more once the ratings come in. That way, it benefits both WB and TNT. At least, that would be the course of action I would recommend to TNT, 6 episodes with an option of more later.
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Originally posted by Bruce: Not a rhetorical question. I hear the business aspects you mention, but I think you may be overestimating the ER and Southland promotional potential and perhaps Regina King as a star in the sense of promoting a show around her on a net like TNT. Where did these elements get the show last year beyond the ER platform somewhat boosting the premiere?
I mean if we're talking about airing 6 episodes, sure, why not use the cable arm of the group to take one last stab at making the show work, just questioning the likelihood of meaningful results. Also TNT can state whatever goals it wants but to me it remains a very inside the box net whose aud gravitates to the old money like ER, Charmed, L&O. The Closer will probably join them later.
But I do think that one of these shows - OTH, SPN, SV - won't survive this year and unfortunately for the OTH fans, I think it'll be OTH. SV actually helped their Friday schedule and SPN is close to syndication so WB might put down their collective foot to keep it for other financial benefits.
OT will end only if other actors refuse to come back or if CW calls it quits. OTH does much better in the W18-34 demo than SV and SN and it's a much better fit for CW's darling GG.
You have to factor Friday nights somewhat into the ratings. If SV was on Monday at 8 like OTH, I am guessing it would do better then Friday at 8. I am guessing no show on the WB would get ratings as high as SV in the timeslot SV is in other then maybe VD(and that's questionable).
Fringe wasn't really that compatible with Bones which also became a problem. As for moving to Fridays, I think Fringe is too expensive to move on that day. Additionally, I don't think FOX should tackle sci fi on Fridays. Syfy has at least part of that audience on that day.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: The answer to this question is simple. Fringe was never ready for Thursday.
I thought I'd take a moment to comment on Medium this season:
The ratings are decent, no more no less. It is a fit with GW but not a great fit on CBS. That can change if it becomes perceived as a show that solves crimes. The promotion should drill into that. It is not the only element of the show by any means but it is where it and the CBS aud intersect. Otherwise it is too outside the box with an actress that is outside the box.
The season premiere was sold. The ep a week from last nite was terrific, but again, outside the box. Very complex. The ep last nite was sausage, but maybe better that than another braintwister like two weeks ago in terms of the general audience. Just calling it like I see it.
Posts: 2846 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
But I do think that one of these shows - OTH, SPN, SV - won't survive this year and unfortunately for the OTH fans, I think it'll be OTH. SV actually helped their Friday schedule and SPN is close to syndication so WB might put down their collective foot to keep it for other financial benefits.
OT will end only if other actors refuse to come back or if CW calls it quits. OTH does much better in the W18-34 demo than SV and SN and it's a much better fit for CW's darling GG.
You have to factor Friday nights somewhat into the ratings. If SV was on Monday at 8 like OTH, I am guessing it would do better then Friday at 8. I am guessing no show on the WB would get ratings as high as SV in the timeslot SV is in other then maybe VD(and that's questionable).
CW would never pair SV with GG. That's suicide. And yes on mondays SV would bet better numbers than on fridays, that's true. But those numbers will still be worse in W18-34 than OTH's
I think One Tree Hill will end this season to be honest - it's not doing that much better than Gossip Girl (which also seems to be outperforming it by far in other areas) and it's old enough to be retired. Supernatural is "only" five seasons old - I think they might move it to Fridays though to find a more compatible show for their only recent hit Vampire Dairies.
Originally posted by tommie: I think One Tree Hill will end this season to be honest - it's not doing that much better than Gossip Girl (which also seems to be outperforming it by far in other areas) and it's old enough to be retired. Supernatural is "only" five seasons old - I think they might move it to Fridays though to find a more compatible show for their only recent hit Vampire Dairies.
It wouldn't surprise me if they decided to build their own "scifi/horror Friday" - I mean, the CW isn't really known for its bright and original ideas Though I wonder what they would "sacrifice" on Thursday at 9pm. Might be interesting to see if another show can match or outgrow SPN's numbers there.
Though I wonder what they would "sacrifice" on Thursday at 9pm. Might be interesting to see if another show can match or outgrow SPN's numbers there.