Originally posted by robert: So PB was close in ads fee to CSI. That's crazy
Perhaps Travis can post some 18-34 numbers for Prison Break vs. CSI? When you see Prison Break's ad rate, the first thought that should come to mind is: 'make goods'. Then again, it is only slightly more valuable than K-Ville and Bionic Woman according to the chart.
I already pointed out that the chart is from BEFORE the fall 2007 premieres, and therefore, the prices for NEW programs were speculative and highly subject to makegoods. Not so much for returning programs, as long as they don't drop much from last year's averages. PB has dropped by, what, 5%? 10%? As have most programs. I doubt Fox is giving out makegoods for PB.
Face it: If total viewer numbers mattered, then Grey's would not be charging $419k while CSI is only $248k. PB would not be able to charge more than Dancing with the Stars. Deal or No Deal would do a lot better than $150k. I can go on and on.
We should not even be discussing household numbers or total viewer numbers on this board. Due to advertiser ageism, those ratings are almost completely meaningless. Media Life Magazine doesn't even bother to report them, usually. They focus almost entirely on 18-49s (which are easier to get than 18-34s). Unfortunately, finding 18-34 numbers is very difficult.
Actually I sorta wish the 18-34s were lower for PB so that they'd get rid of it before it becomes even more of an embarrassment. But they won't.
Posts: 89 | Location: Newark/NYC | Registered: 16 November 2006
Originally posted by mushu_jj: I'm stoked about the return of Til Death and Back to You on Wednesdays. I'm sure Idol will help prop them up into respectable territory. Also, Back to You will have a 2 night post-Idol special week later on this month (I think next week actually), while Til Death will have an ep behind Idol in March sometime. Return of Jezebelle James is as good as dead now on Fridays by itself. Canteburry's Law and New Amsterdam will be lucky to make it the entire way on Mondays.
I am looking forward to B2Y also. I think FOX is making a mistake with not producing more new episodes of either sitcom. It would be a nice boost to have both shows in new Episodes through May.
They are producing new episodes, it was announced today. They will be on Wednesday nights starting in April.
Originally posted by Chimera: Ya gotta hand it to NBC -- considering they were in the worst position entering the strike, to be able to catapult to 2nd place in the Feb sweeps is pretty impressive. ABC may still retake 2nd with the Oscars bump, but if I were NBC I'd be happy with the success of their strike strategy.
Yes & No.
Yes--- they were able to capture 2nd, for now. but...
NO - because when you look at CBS, they have been doing about the same numbers, demo-wise, with mostly repeat programming. And CBS may still end up ahead of NBC once the month is over.
How is CBS going to make up over 0.3 ratings in just 9 days? They don't have any specials or new episodes of hit shows to expect them to significantly change what they've been getting. The Grammys was by far their biggest special and that's long gone.
I think it will be more of NBC sliding BACK to CBS.
AG is over. DOND will eventually give it million dollars away and that interest will fall off. That leaves it next top performer (L&O) at just 10 million viewers and a 3 demo.
CBS and NBC have been doing close to the same demo number each week since the new year.
Originally posted by Holly: I agree. I think Fox is doing really well. My comment wasn't meant to disparage Fox at all. Even without AI, they were much more competitive this year during November sweeps than they were they year before. I just don't they are at a point yet where they can thumb their noses at a show that can guarantee over 7 million viewers and a 3.0 in the demo.
I do agree with that. and the same can be said about ABC and NBC.
Originally posted by TV-aholic: I think it will be more of NBC sliding BACK to CBS.
AG is over. DOND will eventually give it million dollars away and that interest will fall off. That leaves it next top performer (L&O) at just 10 million viewers and a 3 demo.
CBS and NBC have been doing close to the same demo number each week since the new year.
I agree that could (probably will) happen by the end of the season in May, but not by the end of the February sweeps -- not enough time, even with all that you mentioned above, which I agree with.
Originally posted by robert: Besides AI and House they don't have a SINGLE hit. Not one (MOT will drop quickly i'm sure). Every network needs a hit that pulls other shows after it. That's why CW is doing so poorly. If CW finds somehow a show that pulls 8 million all their lineup would do better. Without AI all the other shows will be hurting.
FOX is following the system that CBS has. Distributing its "weight" more evenly. Not too top & bottom heavy like ABC. Its taken a few season, but FOX is starting to get on the right track.
Don't forget that a major advantage that FOX has (when it comes to ratings averages), that no one ever talks about, is that they only program 2 hours per night (3 on Sundays). If FOX programmed the same number hours as the other major networks, their ratings would not be nearly as high as they are.
There is some truth in that. But that would judst allow AI to have even MORE hours on the air.
Kind of hard to say where they would be IF they scheuled 3 hours each week night, since they have never done it. if they had always done it, who knows what they would have on their schedule. And I don't think just saying whay is in developement now would then be on now. more shows would have been ordered to pilot and perhpas more diverse type of shows would have seen development.
Originally posted by whatsonpop: Very well said TV. Fox seems to be building toward being a true forth network. I wonder if there will be a time it expands to 3 hours of primetime each night?
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic:
quote:
Originally posted by robert: Besides AI and House they don't have a SINGLE hit. Not one (MOT will drop quickly i'm sure). Every network needs a hit that pulls other shows after it. That's why CW is doing so poorly. If CW finds somehow a show that pulls 8 million all their lineup would do better. Without AI all the other shows will be hurting.
FOX is following the system that CBS has. Distributing its "weight" more evenly. Not too top & bottom heavy like ABC. Its taken a few season, but FOX is starting to get on the right track.
I don't think the affiliates would ever let it happen. The 10PM hour is way too valuable for them.
If anything, I could see one of the 3 Older Nets (ABC, CBS, NBC) taking the leap and cutting back on hours scheduled each week. Downsize to make the overall a little stronger.
I agree. I think Fox is doing really well. My comment wasn't meant to disparage Fox at all. Even without AI, they were much more competitive this year during November sweeps than they were they year before. I just don't they are at a point yet where they can thumb their noses at a show that can guarantee over 7 million viewers and a 3.0 in the demo.
But a show that has lost millions of viewers in the course of its run can't guarantee that it won't lose more viewers. That's the fallacy in your argument. There IS no guarantee--or if there is, it's a guarantee that over time, ratings will decline, no matter how popular the show once was. And this is particularly true of serialized dramas--horses that tire very quickly.
So while considering how well a given show has done in the past, a network also has to look at trends, and think about how it might do in the future--after they'd already spent money on additional episodes, and given it a timeslot they could use to try out some fresh horses.
Originally posted by robert: Besides AI and House they don't have a SINGLE hit. Not one (MOT will drop quickly i'm sure). Every network needs a hit that pulls other shows after it. That's why CW is doing so poorly. If CW finds somehow a show that pulls 8 million all their lineup would do better. Without AI all the other shows will be hurting.
FOX is following the system that CBS has. Distributing its "weight" more evenly. Not too top & bottom heavy like ABC. Its taken a few season, but FOX is starting to get on the right track.
Don't forget that a major advantage that FOX has (when it comes to ratings averages), that no one ever talks about, is that they only program 2 hours per night (3 on Sundays). If FOX programmed the same number hours as the other major networks, their ratings would not be nearly as high as they are.
There is some truth in that. But that would judst allow AI to have even MORE hours on the air.
Kind of hard to say where they would be IF they scheuled 3 hours each week night, since they have never done it. if they had always done it, who knows what they would have on their schedule. And I don't think just saying whay is in developement now would then be on now. more shows would have been ordered to pilot and perhpas more diverse type of shows would have seen development.
Take the lowest rated 7 hours off of the other nets and just think what their averages would be.
Originally posted by Ike: Face it: If total viewer numbers mattered, then Grey's would not be charging $419k while CSI is only $248k. PB would not be able to charge more than Dancing with the Stars. Deal or No Deal would do a lot better than $150k. I can go on and on.
We should not even be discussing household numbers or total viewer numbers on this board. Due to advertiser ageism, those ratings are almost completely meaningless. Media Life Magazine doesn't even bother to report them, usually. They focus almost entirely on 18-49s (which are easier to get than 18-34s). Unfortunately, finding 18-34 numbers is very difficult.
Actually I sorta wish the 18-34s were lower for PB so that they'd get rid of it before it becomes even more of an embarrassment. But they won't.
two thinks on the CSI & Grey's numbers.
1) Greys does get to charge more because it is even in total viewers, but has a decent lead in the demo over CSI.
2) Greys was expected even more growth this season over last season. It was one of the very few show to INCREASE its ad rates. But, it did not deliver the audience to justify the increased $$$. I would suspect that ABC has makegoods related to Grey's decline in numbers over the previous season.
Originally posted by whatsonpop: Very well said TV. Fox seems to be building toward being a true forth network. I wonder if there will be a time it expands to 3 hours of primetime each night?
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic:
quote:
Originally posted by robert: Besides AI and House they don't have a SINGLE hit. Not one (MOT will drop quickly i'm sure). Every network needs a hit that pulls other shows after it. That's why CW is doing so poorly. If CW finds somehow a show that pulls 8 million all their lineup would do better. Without AI all the other shows will be hurting.
FOX is following the system that CBS has. Distributing its "weight" more evenly. Not too top & bottom heavy like ABC. Its taken a few season, but FOX is starting to get on the right track.
I don't think the affiliates would ever let it happen. The 10PM hour is way too valuable for them.
If anything, I could see one of the 3 Older Nets (ABC, CBS, NBC) taking the leap and cutting back on hours scheduled each week. Downsize to make the overall a little stronger.
I can't see that happening either, but it would not surprise me if at some point the networks stopped programming Saturday nights and gave that time back to the affiliates.
Originally posted by mushu_jj: I'm stoked about the return of Til Death and Back to You on Wednesdays. I'm sure Idol will help prop them up into respectable territory. Also, Back to You will have a 2 night post-Idol special week later on this month (I think next week actually), while Til Death will have an ep behind Idol in March sometime. Return of Jezebelle James is as good as dead now on Fridays by itself. Canteburry's Law and New Amsterdam will be lucky to make it the entire way on Mondays.
I am looking forward to B2Y also. I think FOX is making a mistake with not producing more new episodes of either sitcom. It would be a nice boost to have both shows in new Episodes through May.
They are producing new episodes, it was announced today. They will be on Wednesday nights starting in April.
