quote:

Yep. I totally agree. But, I do think ABC is probably a bit more pleased with B&S retention and numbers out of DH than NBC is with Journeyman. I mean.....does NBC really have distinct reasons to keep Journeyman on the air if it doesn't improve beyon what it is doing?

Well... if they kept Scrubs, 30 Rock and ER from last season, then Journeyman will have no problem getting at least a full season order.

quote:

All The CW pilots - Reaper, Gossip Girl, Aliens in America and Life is Wild - were great or even amazing.

By some standards. I found them to be uninteresting and largely worthless. Reaper was the only one with a shred of life, and even that was hardly amazing.

CW's problem has been stated time and again. Nobody knows they're there, nor cares to. The network was built off of holdover shows that even lost some of their already minuscule ratings in the process. They just aren't creating appointment television or anything with buzz. Say what you will, but people knew when shows like Dawson's Creek, Felicity, Buffy, etc. were starting up. I'll bet if you polled a thousand random people on the street maybe thirty would even know Life Is Wild exists...

quote:

Well... if they kept Scrubs, 30 Rock and ER from last season, then Journeyman will have no problem getting at least a full season order.

Scrubs was saved because it gets strong demos and 30 Rock because they thought it had growth potential. ER because it's a stable performer in a tough time-slot, even if it's ratings are down. There are different standards for every show. Journeyman is doing about as well as any other show NBC has tried in that slot, but I believe it's holding better than the last few, so they will likely be patient. It's better to compare it to what NBC currently has on the schedule in terms of deciding what they'll renew.

Dvr's aside for the moment, CBS had higher demo number on Saturday.

60 Minutes, while little doubt, profitable brings down the over all demo number. Still, I wonder if the lower cheap demo for 60 Minutes is not better than a higher more expensive demo for a scripted show. The worst part is that CBS had a hefty lead on NBC for the week in the demo and it jusat went poof.

I don't get it either. I just ignore the winners/losers columns and look at the numbers. I would hope that is what networks do also.

quote:

Originally posted by nyctvdramaqueen:

quote:

Originally posted by WelcomeToK-Ville:
Winners/losers is completely subjective and based on opinions. People get caught up in it too much. K-Ville had a 83% retention rate out of Prison Break and it as considered a loser. Just because there's an L somewhere next to a show doesn't seal it's fate. I do agree that B&S is definately not winner material. If anything EMHE should be there for the fact that it's cheap to make and is pulling in loads of viewers. From a profit standpoint, EMHE is ratings gold.

I get confused with retention and how that figures into a show's winner/loser status. If a show is pulling in over 12 million viewers and a high demo in 18-49....even if it loses 5-6 million from the show on before, I would consider that show to be a winner based on those numbers alone. And this would go for any show, on any network, following any other show.

In totally non-ratings news and non-tv show news (sorry about this....)...

Randy Orton became the WWE Champion last night (twice) at the No Mercy PPV.

Sorry- I am just excited, and have no one to comment on that to.

Carry on......

So then why is ER a loser when it still gets a very respectable demo rating (which I believe puts it just outside of the Top 20 Programs each week in 18-49)?

quote:

Originally posted by robert:

quote:

Originally posted by AL:
Yes, you are totally right here. Yet somehow their shows are not "losers".

Here are some numbers to point out:

On the year ago evening, check out the numbers for CBS' Sunday 9-11PM programs:

CBS – Cold Case
Total Viewers: 13.78 million; A18-49: 3.9/ 9

CBS – Without a Trace
Total Viewers: 14.93 million; A18-49: 4.4/10

and on the year ago week here is what Shark did:

CBS’ Shark - 14.14 million and adults 18-49 4.0/11


So Cold Case has dropped from a 3.9 in the demo to a 2.9. Meanwhile, Shark has dropped the time period demo from a 4.4 to a 2.5. And it has dropped from its own performance (on Thursday last year) from a 4.0 to a 2.5. And in total viewers Shark has dropped the time period from last years 14.93 to 11.20 this year, and has dropped its own performance (on a Thursday last year) from 14.14 to 11.20 this year.

But these show are "winners" in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by robert:
CBS is the big loser so far on sundays. They've lost 8 million viewers from the previous year.
I'm really wondering how will CW treat LIW? Wil they axe it after a couple of episodes or they'll give it some more time especially seeing the big improvement over the lead-in

Well they are doing worse than last year (much worse in fact) but still their numbers are good so they're not losers

quote:

Originally posted by mayorofsmpleton:

quote:

All The CW pilots - Reaper, Gossip Girl, Aliens in America and Life is Wild - were great or even amazing.

By some standards. I found them to be uninteresting and largely worthless. Reaper was the only one with a shred of life, and even that was hardly amazing.

CW's problem has been stated time and again. Nobody knows they're there, nor cares to. The network was built off of holdover shows that even lost some of their already minuscule ratings in the process. They just aren't creating appointment television or anything with buzz. Say what you will, but people knew when shows like Dawson's Creek, Felicity, Buffy, etc. were starting up. I'll bet if you polled a thousand random people on the street maybe thirty would even know Life Is Wild exists...

The problem is not the quality of the shows on CW. They're decent. The problem is the buzz surrounding those shows. I mean GG had big advirtising campaign but that doesn't automatically means buzz

Ratings for CW Sundays are ridiculous, we've even seen ratings-busted shows like Veronica Mars get above 2 million without lead-ins and large competition. I thought VM was the lowest it would ever go for original programming.

I completely forgot to order No Mercy. Does anyone know if Bastista won?

quote:

Originally posted by nyctvdramaqueen:
In totally non-ratings news and non-tv show news (sorry about this....)...

Randy Orton became the WWE Champion last night (twice) at the No Mercy PPV.

Sorry- I am just excited, and have no one to comment on that to.

Carry on......

next week is the first week Nets/Ad Sellers get new DVR numbers and this is the first year they agreed to count them.....

Any show that is not clearly a hit or a loser it's way too early to make a judgment on...

Think about it... We have...

Fast National Ratings
Final Ratings

and what everyone is going to use... final DVR + 3 ratings....

the DVR ratings are the new final ratings...

quote:

Originally posted by AL:
What do you mean DVR's did not count a year ago? Are you assuming that no homes had a DVR 1 year ago? I have had my DVR for at least 3 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Seat42f:
But a year ago DVR's didn't count... how can we accurately do a year to year when 20% of Nielsen homes have DVRs in play? Especially at 10PM when EVERYONE is recording that hour for replay at a later day....

quote:

Originally posted by AL:
Yes, you are totally right here. Yet somehow their shows are not "losers".

Here are some numbers to point out:

On the year ago evening, check out the numbers for CBS' Sunday 9-11PM programs:

CBS – Cold Case
Total Viewers: 13.78 million; A18-49: 3.9/ 9

CBS – Without a Trace
Total Viewers: 14.93 million; A18-49: 4.4/10

and on the year ago week here is what Shark did:

CBS’ Shark - 14.14 million and adults 18-49 4.0/11


So Cold Case has dropped from a 3.9 in the demo to a 2.9. Meanwhile, Shark has dropped the time period demo from a 4.4 to a 2.5. And it has dropped from its own performance (on Thursday last year) from a 4.0 to a 2.5. And in total viewers Shark has dropped the time period from last years 14.93 to 11.20 this year, and has dropped its own performance (on a Thursday last year) from 14.14 to 11.20 this year.

But these show are "winners" in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by robert:
CBS is the big loser so far on sundays. They've lost 8 million viewers from the previous year.
I'm really wondering how will CW treat LIW? Wil they axe it after a couple of episodes or they'll give it some more time especially seeing the big improvement over the lead-in

I get confused by it as well. That is because the criteria for winners/losers is different for different networks, and for different shows. Certain networks and certain shows are held to different standards.

quote:

Originally posted by nyctvdramaqueen:

quote:

Originally posted by WelcomeToK-Ville:
Winners/losers is completely subjective and based on opinions. People get caught up in it too much. K-Ville had a 83% retention rate out of Prison Break and it as considered a loser. Just because there's an L somewhere next to a show doesn't seal it's fate. I do agree that B&S is definately not winner material. If anything EMHE should be there for the fact that it's cheap to make and is pulling in loads of viewers. From a profit standpoint, EMHE is ratings gold.

I get confused with retention and how that figures into a show's winner/loser status. If a show is pulling in over 12 million viewers and a high demo in 18-49....even if it loses 5-6 million from the show on before, I would consider that show to be a winner based on those numbers alone. And this would go for any show, on any network, following any other show.

quote:

I thought VM was the lowest it would ever go for original programming.

I expected some stuff to do worse. VM's horrific final five episodes' ratings were more a sign of the state the CW was in. Everything on the network is continuing to drop, and VM was just the first to dip to such levels. What chance did a bunch of first year shows with no buzz or name recognition stand?

quote:

Originally posted by WelcomeToK-Ville:
I completely forgot to order No Mercy. Does anyone know if Bastista won?

quote:

Originally posted by nyctvdramaqueen:
In totally non-ratings news and non-tv show news (sorry about this....)...

Randy Orton became the WWE Champion last night (twice) at the No Mercy PPV.

Sorry- I am just excited, and have no one to comment on that to.

Carry on......

No Mercy results:
- Randy Orton awarded WWE Championship.
- HHH def. Orton to win WWE Championship.
- Kennedy/Murdoch/Cade def. Jeff Hardy/London/Kendrick.
- CM Punk def. Big Daddy V via D.Q.
- HHH def. Umaga to retain WWE Championship.
- Beth Pheonix def. Candice to win WWE Women's Championship
- Batista def. The Great Khali to retain WWE World Heavyweight Championship
- Randy Orton def. HHH in Last Man Standing to win WWE Championship.

WOW!
Desperate Housewives lost 1.57 million viewers from last week. Has the bleeding stopped on this show????

I am pleased with the DH and B&S numbers. I honestly was expecting bigger drop offs. I thought both episodes last night were better than the season openers. The retention rate I think is something ABC should be happy with.