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Originally posted by WlcmZapataTexas: That's exactly what I was going to bring up. USA Network caters to a certain audience and the network has been very good at branding itself a certain way to fit that audience. Their shows fit well into the light hearted "characters welcome" storyline. However, even that network has had failures. The Starter Wife is a recent example. L&O: CI and In Plain Sight showed declines this year. And Psych has dipped below 4 million. So there is variations of successes within the network.
USA Network is not immune to making failed attempts and I don't think it's as easy of just adapting the USA Network model to networks to fix their declines.
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Originally posted by gomer:
that's one way to look at it ... another is to say when they put psych and monk and Project Runway on NBC as an experiment, they did not get great ratings. These shows might be solid entertainment but they are still largely niche shows and the definition of success is much more limited.
The thing is with USA, and TNT as well, their audience that they look for are broad enough to get very good ratings. And good shows transcend boundaries. I somewhat disagree with their "failures". The Starter Wife was yes a big bomb but at least was formally a decent rated miniseries with critical acclaim. Psych may drop below 4 million at times but skews young enough to still be pretty successful. I agree with the declines of L&O: CI and IPS though.
The thing is, the networks need to think of what they want to be branded as and then cater to that audience with very well done programming. Like White Collar, I though had traces of other USA shows but have enough twists, enough difference so I don't care and just enjoyed it.
Like Pisher said, you just need to take a familiar formula and throw in some different twists in there with a strong cast. If your line up is somewhat like this, I would think you would be fairly successful.
And the reason they will never move it is simple and clear. 60 Minutes is in a league of it's own when it comes to news programs, that plus all the awards makes it the "30 Rock" of news for CBS except it can attract viewers on its own.
60 Minutes also get the high income viewers that the nets love to get...further, it not only leads the timeslot in viewers but also is either 1st or 2nd in the demos (can CBS do better than this?) NO!
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: CBS will NEVER move 60 Minutes out of the Sunday 7 p.m. hour...it will never happen.
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Originally posted by Anthony: CBS remains in denial on Sunday. Their biggest problem is the show at 7:00 and that is 60 MINUTES.
The fact is it isn't competitive when it doesn't have football as a lead-in.
THE AMAZING RACE pulls very respectable demo numbers. CBS should lead off the night with that an then possibly put comedies at 8pm.
The night needs an overhaul and it needs to start at 7pm.
Originally posted by TV-aholic: don't have my old ratings sheets infront of me. What was Cybil up against? Plus, it has been off the aire for almost 12 seasons. besides, I don't buy into that just because it didn't work the last time, doesn't mean it cant work again.
Look at the reversal of fortune both CBS and ABC got on Thursdays Nights after nearly 2 decades of dominance by NBC on the night.
"Cybill" air Sundays at 8:00 p.m. during the 1995-96 television season and was paired up with "Almost Perfect". The competition...
ABC - "Lois & Clark: New Adventures of Superman" Fox - "The Simpsons"/"Too Something" NBC - "Mad About You"/"Hope & Gloria" WB - "Kirk"/"Simon"
Overall a pretty busy hour for comedies as 8 comedies aired over the five network landscape.
As mentioned, the last time CBS attempted Sunday comedies was during the 2002-2003 season when "Becker" aired there. It was first paired up with "Bram & Alice" (which lasted all of four episodes) and then moved to 8:30 and was paired up with "My Big Fat Greek Life" (which lasted longer...seven episodes).
Ironically, CBS followed up those comedy failures with dramatic successes. "Touched By An Angel" enjoyed a long run on Sundays after "Cybill" was moved and "Cold Case" came to rescue following the "Becker" experiment.
Since Marc loves Brothers and Sisters and the ratings seems to have ticked up,
"I've been surprised by how much I've been enjoying this season of Brothers & Sisters so far. No more Tommy, they've listened to the fan outcry and reduced Ryan's role, Kitty's cancer was introduced tastefully and is being dealt with in an emotionally effective way, Kitty and The Senator are, for the most part, finally behaving like adults and being far less stupid than usual about their relationship, The Senator's political blackmail problem has been squashed, and the show is always more hilarious when Sarah's getting laid, so I'm pretty happy.
I still have complaints, of course -- this has never been a perfect show -- but so far it's felt like the right mix of tearjerker and farce that I don't remember it being since as far back as the middle of the second season. I can't remember the last time I giggled like an idiot (Gilles Marini teaching Justin to dance) and then turned around and got teary (Gilles Marini teaching Nora to waltz) in the same Brothers & Sisters episode. It's been a while, and this is the first time it's consistently been this good in years. "
Marc - respectfully - they need to do move it. The time has come. The show would be a loser on any other network. A 2.1 18-49 on the highest rated night of the week is a loser. It barely has a higher 18-49 than two or three nights of Leno.
Had NFL not run that far over, NBC would have beaten them 18-49 that hour but people were still watching the NFL on Fox.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: CBS will NEVER move 60 Minutes out of the Sunday 7 p.m. hour...it will never happen.
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Originally posted by Anthony: CBS remains in denial on Sunday. Their biggest problem is the show at 7:00 and that is 60 MINUTES.
The fact is it isn't competitive when it doesn't have football as a lead-in.
THE AMAZING RACE pulls very respectable demo numbers. CBS should lead off the night with that an then possibly put comedies at 8pm.
The night needs an overhaul and it needs to start at 7pm.
Posts: 404 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 October 2006
People focus on the demo because that tends to be what the advertisers pay for. However, I thought it was discussed a year or so ago that 60 minutes was *not* sold on its demo but on its unique audience composition and respect.
For example, in the upfronts 60 minutes charged about $94k per ad spot and Amazing Race charged $110k. Small difference considering the big demo difference. On Saturday 48 Hours Mystery charges $38k.
Who cares about the demo if it doesn't translate into dollars? The Wednesday comedies for CBS charge about $80k each, and they would probably drop significantly if they had to deal with the competition on Sunday.
Originally posted by Anthony: Marc - respectfully - they need to do move it. The time has come. The show would be a loser on any other network. A 2.1 18-49 on the highest rated night of the week is a loser. It barely has a higher 18-49 than two or three nights of Leno.
60 minutes got $94k in the upfronts and Leno got between $49k and $66k...demo isn't everything when you aren't selling the demo.
Originally posted by Anthony: Marc - respectfully - they need to do move it. The time has come. The show would be a loser on any other network. A 2.1 18-49 on the highest rated night of the week is a loser. It barely has a higher 18-49 than two or three nights of Leno.
And what did The Amazing Race get?
60 minutes got $94k in the upfronts and Leno got between $49k and $66k...demo isn't everything when you aren't selling the demo.
Posts: 404 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 October 2006
Okay, but then what replaces TAR? And I think you can count on one hand ( maybe 2 hands) the number of times TAR has had above a 3.0 demo on Sunday without a football lead-in.
There is no regularly scheduled non sports program getting above a 2.5 in the demo in this hour. I don't believe that TAR would be the show to buck that trend.
Additionally, 60 Minutes has been holding steady in this slot for decades. TAR has had some okay moments on Sunday, maybe even an entire cycle or two, but it cannot be relied upon long term. Who's to say that Phil is gonna wanna host this thing anymore? Isn't Probst getting tired of Survivor?
Uprooting a stable 60 Minutes for a reality show is not a good idea.
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Originally posted by Anthony: The replacement for 60 Minutes on Sunday is clearly THE AMAZING RACE. With a football lead-in, it probably gets a 4.0 18-49 and a 3.0 without it.
Yeah, moving "60 Minutes" to Saturday would be a great public service by CBS.
You've got four major networks, and a raft of cable TV nets.
There isn't enough mindless trash on for you to enjoy?
Heck, catch up with that is saved on your freakin' DVR.
Allow adults who enjoy thinking about problems facing us all one hour of network TV time (out of close to 100) to consider those issues.
It is called broadcasting -- and, despite what the 18-49 demo freaks here would have us believe -- there are folks, and folks who actually matter, who fall outside the demo.
Originally posted by Anthony: And what did The Amazing Race get?
60 minutes got $94k in the upfronts and Leno got between $49k and $66k...demo isn't everything when you aren't selling the demo.
I think someone already mentioned that "Amazing Race" gets $110,000 per ad.
Why would CBS want to replace "Minutes" with "Amazing Race"? The series is in its 15th season and although it has held up better in the ratings over the years than "Survivor" (in fairness, "Race" didn't have as far to fall as "Survivor" did), how many more seasons can "Race" conceivably run? Not too many.
With all due respect, I think those people advocating a "60 Minutes" move need to lay off whatever it is you are smoking.
Originally posted by pisher: We're seeing similar DH drops for all previous weeks this season so far, and really from each season to the next, so it's not the competition, obviously. And DH will continue to drop. Obviously.
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Originally posted by vlis: DH's competition from NBC was nothing last year compared to this year.
Last year on NBC:
week 5 Sunday 10/26/08 nbc 40 Year Old Virgin 4,560 0.9
week 5 Sunday 10/26/08 nbc Football Night in America 2,600 0.9
This year NBC had a 11.85/4.6......big difference.
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Originally posted by pisher:
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Anyways, I know DH didn't rise a lot, but there was a slight rise, so that's good.
A slight rise from last week. But at the same time last year, DH got a 5.7 in the demo. A drop of slightly over a full percentage point in the course of one year isn't any kind of rise. And let's see--if that rate continued--3.5 next season--2.4 the season after that--and 1.3 for the 'final' 9th season Marc Cherry now reportedly says he feels is essential to finishing off this ever less popular story of ever less popular suburban degenerates.
But DH is still the #1 scripted show on Sunday
But if it keeps falling, it won't be. Nobody's saying 'cancel it now'. Just saying that seven and out seems the only sane thing to do. Costs keep rising, ratings keep falling. Why drag it out? Why let such a big hit turn into a flop, simply because the network doesn't have the guts to try something new?
