Originally posted by TAYLORJNG: I absolutely agree that there's been success, but it's solely in viewership. 60 Min. is a failure at demo performance. The latest episodes of Community and Parks and Recreation got .1 less in the demo than 60 Minutes and they were able to achieve that with 60% fewer viewers. I think I recall when 60 Min. used to average about 16 million viewers, it would average a 3.0+ in the demo. Now that it's averaging about 12 million, it's getting less than a 2.5. What if it declines to 10 million? Would CBS be happy with less than a 2.0 in the demo? a 1.5? What's the stopping point?
I have always thought that some people put too much emphasis on the Adult 18-49 year old demographic. Like people 17 and under and 50 and over don't watch television or don't spend money.
CBS doesn't seem to be too worried about the performance of "60 Minutes" among that over-valued demographic because it has aired in the same time slot longer than I and most other people on this forum have been alive. Will CBS move or cancel "60 Minutes"? Probably sometime in the distant future. But I don't think that will happen next season or the one after or the one after or the one...you get the idea.
It has been argued that CBS doesn't really put as much emphasis in the 18-49 year olds as their competitors do and perhaps that is why everyone else is chasing them on a weekly basis amongst total viewers. Perhaps that is also the reason CBS has one of the most successful and stable line-ups? Perhaps CBS realizes that your existence doesn't begin at 18 and end once you hit 49.
Too bad CBS has had a 38-year commitment to producing a show which may not attract large numbers of the 18-49 demo, but does attract thoughtful, viewers -- and it has been for decades a show with among the highest household income ratios of any.
Many may not watch it, but there are many alternatives available Sunday at 7. CBS need not dumb down even that important hour to chase after another few tenths of an 18-49 rating points.
And thankfully Les Moonves has shown absolutely no indication he is considering such a move.
"60 Minutes" is an important show. Nothing else on Sunday nights can be considered anywhere near the same.
Comedies at 8/7 on Sunday -- hmmm. CBS tried that with Cybill and it wasn't great. Even though 60M bleeds the football audience -- it is still a self-starter -- year-round. Moreover, unlike any other newsmag, it does have "respect". I mean, would you even put it in the same category as "Dateline"? 20/20 had it's moments, but that was short-lived (in terms of serious cred).
don't have my old ratings sheets infront of me. What was Cybil up against? Plus, it has been off the aire for almost 12 seasons. besides, I don't buy into that just because it didn't work the last time, doesn't mean it cant work again.
Look at the reversal of fortune both CBS and ABC got on Thursdays Nights after nearly 2 decades of dominance by NBC on the night.
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Originally posted by Dean's_List: Comedies at 8/7 on Sunday -- hmmm. CBS tried that with Cybill and it wasn't great. Even though 60M bleeds the football audience -- it is still a self-starter -- year-round. Moreover, unlike any other newsmag, it does have "respect". I mean, would you even put it in the same category as "Dateline"? 20/20 had it's moments, but that was short-lived (in terms of serious cred).
I have always thought that some people put too much emphasis on the Adult 18-49 year old demographic. Like people 17 and under and 50 and over don't watch television or don't spend money.
CBS doesn't seem to be too worried about the performance of "60 Minutes" among that over-valued demographic because it has aired in the same time slot longer than I and most other people on this forum have been alive. Will CBS move or cancel "60 Minutes"? Probably sometime in the distant future. But I don't think that will happen next season or the one after or the one after or the one...you get the idea.
It has been argued that CBS doesn't really put as much emphasis in the 18-49 year olds as their competitors do and perhaps that is why everyone else is chasing them on a weekly basis amongst total viewers. Perhaps that is also the reason CBS has one of the most successful and stable line-ups? Perhaps CBS realizes that your existence doesn't begin at 18 and end once you hit 49.
I agree. But, we debate these ratings based on the industry standard, and the industry standard is the 18-49 year old demographic.
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So it is time to "retire" 60 Minutes?
Too bad CBS has had a 38-year commitment to producing a show which may not attract large numbers of the 18-49 demo, but does attract thoughtful, viewers -- and it has been for decades a show with among the highest household income ratios of any.
Many may not watch it, but there are many alternatives available Sunday at 7. CBS need not dumb down even that important hour to chase after another few tenths of an 18-49 rating points.
And thankfully Les Moonves has shown absolutely no indication he is considering such a move.
"60 Minutes" is an important show. Nothing else on Sunday nights can be considered anywhere near the same.
It can still be important on Saturday nights too. The night it's on won't dumb down its relevance. It might even find a RENEWED importance in helping to revive a night that networks have abandoned...if the move works of course.
Like I said before, I'm not say CBS should move it cold turkey. I'm saying they should try specials, see how they do, and act from there.
The problem with CBS is that they have many high viewership shows that have only ok demos. Outside of their comedy lineup, TAR, and Survivor, they don't really have any younger skewing shows. As viewership declines for these shows, so will their demos. Even NCIS can't hit a 5.0 in the demo despite having 20 million+ viewers while a show like House can hit a 5.0 easily with less than 15 mil. Taking 60 Min. off Sundays will help raise their demos on a night that CBS is struggling with. It's as simple as that.
We can debate the merit of the demos all we want, but the fact is they are what the industry uses to call a show a hit or miss.
Posts: 1487 | Location: Brookline, MA | Registered: 25 September 2006
Originally posted by TAYLORJNG: We can debate the merit of the demos all we want, but the fact is they are what the industry uses to call a show a hit or miss.
The demos are what ADVERTISERS (not all advertisers, but as a group) put importance on.
The industry uses any measurement they want to to determine a hit or miss. CBS claims leadership based on viewership; Fox can claim leadership based on demos; same thing for individual series and time slots. CBS crows that David Letterman is the most watched late night show, NBC counters (or used to) that Conan O'Brien is tops in a particular demographic.
IIRC, I think the biggest issue w/ 60 Minutes II was that its biggest competition to get content was the original 60 Minutes. I think there was an article in TV Guide or something describing how there was tension within the news department because of the two editions...
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Originally posted by TAYLORJNG:
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CBS tried something like this a few years back. It was called 60 Minutes II. it lasted just a few years and was canceled because of low ratings.
Well...it lasted six years which isn't a terrible run. It also aired at a time when expectations were higher.
Plus, I'm not talking about a spinoff. I'm talking about specials with the original 60 Min. title on Saturday nights.
I remember Becker being tried on this night...and it actually did pretty well and was exceeding expectations until the horrendous My Big Fat Greek Life came and ruined the hour.
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Originally posted by TV-aholic: don't have my old ratings sheets infront of me. What was Cybil up against? Plus, it has been off the aire for almost 12 seasons. besides, I don't buy into that just because it didn't work the last time, doesn't mean it cant work again.
Look at the reversal of fortune both CBS and ABC got on Thursdays Nights after nearly 2 decades of dominance by NBC on the night.
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Originally posted by Dean's_List: Comedies at 8/7 on Sunday -- hmmm. CBS tried that with Cybill and it wasn't great. Even though 60M bleeds the football audience -- it is still a self-starter -- year-round. Moreover, unlike any other newsmag, it does have "respect". I mean, would you even put it in the same category as "Dateline"? 20/20 had it's moments, but that was short-lived (in terms of serious cred).
White Collar (71 minutes) - 5.400 million viewers - 3.5/7 HH - 1.4/4 A18-49
I completely enjoyed both episodes. Monk really picked up in the demo, thanks to Sharona. Great episode. Surprised that Monk actually beat out White Collar in the demo but great ratings regardless. WC was fun and slick and well done.
I'm guessing football on NBC took a hit from Baseball. Anyways, Go Yankees!
Ouch for CBS. Just ouch. Will they ever try a 2 hour edition of TAR?
Still decent numbers for ABC.
And ouch, CNN is last of all the cable news networks?
Originally posted by pisher: We're seeing similar DH drops for all previous weeks this season so far, and really from each season to the next, so it's not the competition, obviously. And DH will continue to drop. Obviously.
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Originally posted by vlis: DH's competition from NBC was nothing last year compared to this year.
Last year on NBC:
week 5 Sunday 10/26/08 nbc 40 Year Old Virgin 4,560 0.9
week 5 Sunday 10/26/08 nbc Football Night in America 2,600 0.9
This year NBC had a 11.85/4.6......big difference.
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Originally posted by pisher:
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Anyways, I know DH didn't rise a lot, but there was a slight rise, so that's good.
A slight rise from last week. But at the same time last year, DH got a 5.7 in the demo. A drop of slightly over a full percentage point in the course of one year isn't any kind of rise. And let's see--if that rate continued--3.5 next season--2.4 the season after that--and 1.3 for the 'final' 9th season Marc Cherry now reportedly says he feels is essential to finishing off this ever less popular story of ever less popular suburban degenerates.
NBC has added two projects to its development slate, the drama "Nola Rising" from producer Teri Weinberg and comedy "Ordinary People" from producer Scott Stuber.
Both are set up at Universal Media Studios.
"Nola," from writer Diane Ademu-John ("Medium"), revolves around a down-on-his-luck private investigator and a charismatic ex-con capable of being inhabited by ghosts who become unlikely partners to help solve the problems of New Orleans citizens, living or dead.
Weinberg is executive producing through her Yellow Brick Road banner.
Ademu-John and Alex Hertzberg are co-executive producers.
The project marks Weinberg's second sale this season following another NBC/UMS drama, "Welcome to Hitchcock."
"Ordinary," described as "Mad About You" meets "The Cosby Show," is part of NBC's effort to develop an African-American comedy series. It's a hybrid comedy from "America's Next Top Model" co-developer Kenya Barris.
Inspired by Barris' real-life experiences, "Ordinary" revolves around Kevin and Kelsey Whitmore, a married couple in their late 20s who are fast-tracked professionals with four kids.
After spending most of his time on the road as a Rolling Stone music reporter, Kevin is promoted to columnist and works from home, a change that requires adjustment for everyone in the family.
Barris, repped by WME and Principato Young, is executive producing with Stuber.
I like Oridinary, however I don't see either show going on to become a hit.
Both sounds pretty interesting but I don't think either has a break-out quality about them.
Originally posted by pisher: But--but--Friday is the DEATH SLOT!!! And it's Friday at TEN!!!! That's the DOUBLE death slot!!!
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: FYI...from tomorrow's PI:
-Strong Debut for USA’s White Collar: White Collar, USA Network’s newest scripted series, debuted with a stellar 5.37 million viewers on Oct. 23 -- the best performance in the Friday 10 p.m. ET hour since the premiere of Psych on July 7, 2006. Compared to recent series premieres on USA, White Collar in the more competitive month of October outdelivered Burn Notice (3.98 million in June 2007) by 35 percent and In Plain Sight (5.25 million in June 2008) by two percent. Breakout hit Royal Pains opened with a similar 5.57 million viewers this past summer. Results for White Collar among adults 25-54 (2.18 million) and adults 18-49 (1.79 million) were the best in the time period since Feb. 15, 2008.
