Originally posted by dedin: Last nights episode of Brothers & Sisters got me thinking with the Dancing near crossover. . . If they move the show, they should do it in conjuction with a Dancing crossover. Perhaps have Emily (Rebecca) participate in Dancing with the Stars. That could lead into the newly relocated B/S.
I think it depends on how you want them to "develop" their shows. If CBS, for instance, takes USA Network's leftover shows and tries to program them, they will likely fail. They are too niche and out of the comfort zone for their target audience.
However, what I do agree with in your statements is that every network, big or small, has to know their audience and convey it. This is where cable networks have an easier time than broadcast networks. F/X, TNT, AMC, and USA Network can pick a segment of the audience, go after it, and do reasonably well with an audience of 3 to 4 million, even 5 million because of lower ratings expectations. If you apply the same expectations and reasoning to CBS, ABC, FOX, or NBC, you have a bunch of shows that are easily cancelled. What the larger broadcast networks need to do is find a theme and then find a way to broadcast it to a mainstream audience with mainstream appeal. Psych and Monk wouldn't work on ABC or NBC. Too niche. I don't think Burn Notice would either. But elements of these shows would work if mixed with more mainstream thinking.
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Originally posted by pisher:
If the major nets developed shows as well as USA is currently doing, they'd start reversing that trend, but it would take time, and who knows how much time they have left.
If I were CBS, I'd be debating whether or not to move TAR to a trouble spot (like Weds. @ 8) and to move the comedies to the Sunday slot in order to potentially provide more consistency to the night and give the comedies a lead-in. TAR is clearly its own audience maker, and this night is a mess.
Posts: 1482 | Location: Brookline, MA | Registered: 25 September 2006
While I see Anthony's point of moving 60 Minutes to place something perhaps more younger skewing, I have to agree with Marc that it's unlikely to happen. CBS seems to be happy with 60 Minutes there.
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Originally posted by Marc Berman: CBS will NEVER move 60 Minutes out of the Sunday 7 p.m. hour...it will never happen.
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Originally posted by Anthony: CBS remains in denial on Sunday. Their biggest problem is the show at 7:00 and that is 60 MINUTES.
The fact is it isn't competitive when it doesn't have football as a lead-in.
THE AMAZING RACE pulls very respectable demo numbers. CBS should lead off the night with that an then possibly put comedies at 8pm.
The night needs an overhaul and it needs to start at 7pm.
CBS will NEVER move 60 Minutes out of the Sunday 7 p.m. hour...it will never happen.
...and I'm sure people though CBS would never cancel Guiding Light.
I would not be surprised if CBS moved 60 Min. to Saturday next season (which would be a smart move). The audience that watches 60 Min. would stick with it, football would directly lead into primetime, and overruns would not impact shows nearly as much as they do now.
Posts: 1482 | Location: Brookline, MA | Registered: 25 September 2006
TAR doesn't really fit in with the Sunday lineup. Wednesdays at 8 PM would be a better choice. However, I think CBS' greatest problem is Sundays at 9 PM. There needs to be a strong show that can lead into the 10 PM hour.
If I were CBS, I'd be debating whether or not to move TAR to a trouble spot (like Weds. @ 8) and to move the comedies to the Sunday slot in order to potentially provide more consistency to the night and give the comedies a lead-in. TAR is clearly its own audience maker, and this night is a mess.
I think it depends on how you want them to "develop" their shows. If CBS, for instance, takes USA Network's leftover shows and tries to program them, they will likely fail. They are too niche and out of the comfort zone for their target audience.
Not remotely what I was talking about, but agreed.
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However, what I do agree with in your statements is that every network, big or small, has to know their audience and convey it.
That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
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This is where cable networks have an easier time than broadcast networks. F/X, TNT, AMC, and USA Network can pick a segment of the audience, go after it, and do reasonably well with an audience of 3 to 4 million, even 5 million because of lower ratings expectations.
A fair point, but somehow they managed to do okay back when their audience was basically everybody with a TV set and there were no other viewing options. I agree some cable shows are very 'niche' (Showtime epitomizes this), but I don't necessarily agree USA's offerings fall into this category. Their shows don't have any more 'adult' material than the networks (less in some cases), and are all based on genres that were broken in by the networks.
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If you apply the same expectations and reasoning to CBS, ABC, FOX, or NBC, you have a bunch of shows that are easily cancelled.
But now you're the one making comparisons that don't work--USA managed to get these audiences without anything like the resources the broadcast nets have. If these same shows had been developed equally well by a major network--and consistently, so as to avoid the brand devaluation we're seeing--then I don't think we'd be seeing the same level of decline.
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What the larger broadcast networks need to do is find a theme and then find a way to broadcast it to a mainstream audience with mainstream appeal. Psych and Monk wouldn't work on ABC or NBC. Too niche.
The same approach with different shows WOULD work, if they knew how to produce and promote them, but they don't. They have too many cooks, and the broth is perpetually spoiled.
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I don't think Burn Notice would either. But elements of these shows would work if mixed with more mainstream thinking.
I don't for the life of me see what isn't 'mainstream' about all of those shows. Again, the true test isn't repurposing cable shows to the networks--without anything like the build-up a typical network premiere gets.
USA is getting a great bang for its buck, and the networks are not. That comes down to understanding the audience, yes. Which is more fragmented now, to be sure. But still more than enough viewers to get better ratings than we're seeing, and that's a problem of DEVELOPMENT. The whole broadcast network process of developing and greenlighting shows is faulty.
I mean, are you seriously suggesting that detective, doctor and spy shows are 'niche', but a show about a piemaker who brings people back to life while a twee narrator drones in the background is mainstream?
Project Runway is irrelevant to what we're discussing. Psych and Monk aren't their most popular shows. And of course you failed to combine their ratings on USA with their ratings on NBC.
But most of all, you fail to see that NBC and really all four major networks have been producing forgettable scripted programming for so long, they've devalued their brand, NBC most of all.
A related example--Chevrolet recently did a consumer survey, letting people test drive some of their current offerings--some test subjects knew they were driving Chevys, others did not. The people who knew they were driving Chevys were a lot less positive in their evaluations.
That's what happens when a well-known brand disappoints people consistently over a long period of time--even if they do something right, they'll get less credit for it. So even if you took a show people genuinely like from a cable network and put it on one of the major nets, it would suffer from this poor perception, even though its potential audience was greatly increased. USA and some other cable nets are OUTperforming expectations, based on their market penetration--the broadcast nets are vastly UNDERperforming in relation to their near-100% market penetration.
If the major nets developed shows as well as USA is currently doing, they'd start reversing that trend, but it would take time, and who knows how much time they have left.
We have no polling on the network brands. How do you know that just as many people don't associate the USA network with the WWE or NBC castoff/burn-off shows like Law and Order:CI as they do with quirky, offbeat dramedies. They have lower expectations so a hit for them is a bit north of anything on the CW.
Edit to add: Monk and Psych were two of their highest rated shows when they trotted them onto NBC.
I'm not sure what resources broadcast has that cable doesn't, especially with the rise of cable over the last few years. In fact, I'd argue that cable has more resources to spend on their new shows than broadcast networks since they have very few priorities. ABC debuted 7 new shows this fall and has more mid-season. USA debuted one new show this fall, White Collar. They could spend all of their time, energy, and more importantly ad dollars on getting people aware of White Collar. Much more attention was spent on White Collar for instance than ABC spent on Hank, Eastwick, or The Forgotten. It could be aruged that these were weak concepts that ABC didn't expect to do well, but the fact of the matter is with resources devoted on Modern Family, Cougar Town, V, Flash Forward, The Middle etc., there wasn't enough to really promote those shows. ABC had to make priorities, USA Network didn't.
USA Network also benefits from multiple repeats of White Collar while ABC at best could do one additional repeat on Friday for their high profile shows. So it gives the potential audience of White Collar even more time to find the new show.
There are huge advantages that cable has that I don't think broadcast will ever be able to make up for. Better development and a stronger focus on specific types of shows would help, but they'd still be reasons for cable's superiority.
With that said, good night pisher.
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Originally posted by pisher:
But now you're the one making comparisons that don't work--USA managed to get these audiences without anything like the resources the broadcast nets have. If these same shows had been developed equally well by a major network--and consistently, so as to avoid the brand devaluation we're seeing--then I don't think we'd be seeing the same level of decline.
PD wasn't mainstream and it was outside what the ABC audience typically expects.
However, I do think it's interesting that TNT, a cable network, is rumored to be thinking about remaking Dallas, a show that is way outside the type of shows that fits their audience profile and what they have been developing. So even cable is making some of the show development reaches that networks has been criticized for.
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Originally posted by pisher:
I mean, are you seriously suggesting that detective, doctor and spy shows are 'niche', but a show about a piemaker who brings people back to life while a twee narrator drones in the background is mainstream?
TAR doesn't really fit in with the Sunday lineup. Wednesdays at 8 PM would be a better choice. However, I think CBS' greatest problem is Sundays at 9 PM. There needs to be a strong show that can lead into the 10 PM hour.
I think the problem with that is that TAR is a show that carves its own demo. Even back when it was leading out of NCIS on Tuesday nights (before it was displaced by the more compatible The Unit), it used to decline quite a bit in viewership, but grow in the demo (much like it's doing now with 60 Min).
I think TAR should be moved to Wednesdays @ 8, because it'll still do similar numbers, but it will lead-in to more established shows. I don't know if TAR is a good lead-in to anything that isn't either established or young-skewing.
Posts: 1482 | Location: Brookline, MA | Registered: 25 September 2006
Originally posted by gomer: best meltdown on TAR last night since Colin and the ox.
I hope he dumps her... Every race has a height related task, can't believe she wasn't better prepared to face her fear. It was slide that 10 year old kids go down!!! Not jumping off a bridge.
Posts: 13 | Location: San Diego | Registered: 06 November 2006
CBS will NEVER move 60 Minutes out of the Sunday 7 p.m. hour...it will never happen.
...and I'm sure people though CBS would never cancel Guiding Light.
I would not be surprised if CBS moved 60 Min. to Saturday next season (which would be a smart move). The audience that watches 60 Min. would stick with it, football would directly lead into primetime, and overruns would not impact shows nearly as much as they do now.
I believe you have mentioned CBS moving "60 Minutes" to Saturday before, but that is likely a pipe dream. Comparing the venerable newsmagazine to the defunct soap "Guiding Light" is comparing apples and oranges...they are two entirely different situations. For starters, "Light" was the lowest rated daytime serial at the time of its cancellation and had showed no significant improvement in the ratings. "60 Minutes" is far from low rated (albeit among total viewers) and remains one of CBS's highest rated series.
You may not be surprised to have CBS move "Minutes" to Saturday next season, but virtually everyone else would be. I would tend to agree with the original comments. Although I won't be so brash as to say it will "never" happen, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Umm....isn't that the pretty much what you're supposed to do in a competition?
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Originally posted by Jay: [QUOTE]Originally posted by weaklink75:
While we are dishing out shame, the Globetrotters should also be ashamed of themselves for exploiting Mika's obsessive fear for their own personal gain.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: SleptOn,
I believe you have mentioned CBS moving "60 Minutes" to Saturday before, but that is likely a pipe dream. Comparing the venerable newsmagazine to the defunct soap "Guiding Light" is comparing apples and oranges...they are two entirely different situations. For starters, "Light" was the lowest rated daytime serial at the time of its cancellation and had showed no significant improvement in the ratings. "60 Minutes" is far from low rated (albeit among total viewers) and remains one of CBS's highest rated series.
You may not be surprised to have CBS move "Minutes" to Saturday next season, but virtually everyone else would be. I would tend to agree with the original comments. Although I won't be so brash as to say it will "never" happen, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
...and 60 Min. is one of CBS' lowest demo-performing shows (when there's not overrun) especially in relation to its viewer total...and it's leading into the only saving grace they have on Sunday nights. I understand it's an institution (although so was Guiding Light). But all things come to an end, and I'm not even calling for 60 Min. to be canceled. I just think it'll be utilized better on a lower-profile night where it could actually potentially be the top viewer and demo show on the night.
CBS could even try some special 60 Min. episodes on Sat. nights in order to gauge audience interest. If it's halfway successful, I think it should be moved there.
EDIT: I also understand that special 60 Min. episodes (featuring say the Obamas or any story that is gripping America right now) bring in higher viewership and demos...but why not transplant those numbers to a night that has been dormant for way too long and prove to other networks that there are viewers to be had and make them step up their game
This message has been edited. Last edited by: TAYLORJNG,
Posts: 1482 | Location: Brookline, MA | Registered: 25 September 2006
