The finale perked up to around 18 million viewers but viewership for the season was declining year to year (I believe it was around 10 million, but not completely sure).
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Originally posted by Justin: Just out of curiousity, and seeing how bad NBC is now w/its sitcoms/comedies...What was Will & Grace's numbers like in the last season? Also, does NBC actually even have a sitcom anymore?
That's a huge decline. Considering it was around 20 when it was behind Friends. Is there still a sitcom on NBC or are they creating one yet...I'm sure it would do better than what they have now...?
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Originally posted by tvfan300: The finale perked up to around 18 million viewers but viewership for the season was declining year to year (I believe it was around 10 million, but not completely sure).
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Originally posted by Justin: Just out of curiousity, and seeing how bad NBC is now w/its sitcoms/comedies...What was Will & Grace's numbers like in the last season? Also, does NBC actually even have a sitcom anymore?
Posts: 2643 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
I believe if you go deep into the vault at NBC there are some unaired eps of 20 Good Years.
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Originally posted by Justin: That's a huge decline. Considering it was around 20 when it was behind Friends. Is there still a sitcom on NBC or are they creating one yet...I'm sure it would do better than what they have now...?
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Originally posted by tvfan300: The finale perked up to around 18 million viewers but viewership for the season was declining year to year (I believe it was around 10 million, but not completely sure).
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Originally posted by Justin: Just out of curiousity, and seeing how bad NBC is now w/its sitcoms/comedies...What was Will & Grace's numbers like in the last season? Also, does NBC actually even have a sitcom anymore?
If you look closer at the 18-49 numbers on Thursday you will see how weak Shark was.
Shark 18-49 rating was 3.0. Which was a drop from 3.3 from its lead in. Its lead in, however, was a repeat, while Shark was new.
Scrubs, which generally is referred to as a loser by media like Marc, had a 2.9, just a smidge behind Shark. Scrubs, though, had a just a 2.4 from its lead in, 30 Rock. So in my book Scrubs is a winner, not a loser.
Ugly Betty, which gave a Down But Not Out, had a 3.0 rating, equal to Shark. And that was at the lower HUT hour of 8PM. Even 5th Grader had a higher rating, 3.2 than Shark. Also in the 8PM lower HUT lever hour, Earl and Office had 3.0 ratings. And Office was a repeat. So a repeat of the Office at an early hour gets an equal rating to a new Shark. And Shark is a winner?
So from what I could see, for the entire night on the big 4 networks, the only shows that got a lower 18-49 rating than a new episode of Shark were 30 Rock, a repeat of Trading Spouses, and by .01 of a rating point Scrubs.
Yet Shark is a winner?
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Originally posted by tvfan300: ER and Grey's lead out is not weak competition. What CSI: Miami has faced all season is weak competition. And the retention for Shark out of CSI is better than anything ABC has put out of Grey's Anatomy, better than anything NBC has put out of Heroes, and fairly close to slightly better than what Brothers and Sisters does out of Desperate Housewives.
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Originally posted by AL: I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
Originally posted by AL: If you look closer at the 18-49 numbers on Thursday you will see how weak Shark was.
Shark 18-49 rating was 3.0. Which was a drop from 3.3 from its lead in. Its lead in, however, was a repeat, while Shark was new.
Scrubs, which generally is referred to as a loser by media like Marc, had a 2.9, just a smidge behind Shark. Scrubs, though, had a just a 2.4 from its lead in, 30 Rock. So in my book Scrubs is a winner, not a loser.
Ugly Betty, which gave a Down But Not Out, had a 3.0 rating, equal to Shark. And that was at the lower HUT hour of 8PM. Even 5th Grader had a higher rating, 3.2 than Shark. Also in the 8PM lower HUT lever hour, Earl and Office had 3.0 ratings. And Office was a repeat. So a repeat of the Office at an early hour gets an equal rating to a new Shark. And Shark is a winner?
So from what I could see, for the entire night on the big 4 networks, the only shows that got a lower 18-49 rating than a new episode of Shark were 30 Rock, a repeat of Trading Spouses, and by .01 of a rating point Scrubs.
Yet Shark is a winner?
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Originally posted by tvfan300: ER and Grey's lead out is not weak competition. What CSI: Miami has faced all season is weak competition. And the retention for Shark out of CSI is better than anything ABC has put out of Grey's Anatomy, better than anything NBC has put out of Heroes, and fairly close to slightly better than what Brothers and Sisters does out of Desperate Housewives.
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Originally posted by AL: I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
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And Shark, meanwhile, deserves brownie points for holding its CSI encore by 99 percent in viewers and 91 percent among adults 18-49.
thats why it is labeled a winner
plus they were the 2 of the 3 lowest rated of the night .. on the 4 major networks you cant count the CW..
Yes...Shark is a winner. There is nothing wrong with a show that skews older. I don't agree with the networks. And Scrubs is way down year-to-year -- that makes it a loser. Ugly Betty also sunk to a series low. When I determine the labels, there is more than looking at just the show versus the lead-in.
Originally posted by AL: For the 1st week of the sweeps (next Friday 4/27) NBC is airing the final episodes of Identity and Raines. For the following 3 weeks they are airing 2 hour editions for Dateline (as if we need more of that).
For all 4 weeks they will be airing new episodes of Law and Order at 10PM.
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Originally posted by Red: Has NBC announced what they are doing on this night in May? I know Raines finale is next week, so what's going there? Dateline?
And those deadly Datelines will give Law & Order horrible lead-in numbers.
What a sad way for NBC execs to treat the franchise which has made the corporation hundreds of millions of dollars.
I'm sure it was because of lower ratings, however I never heard why NBC banished L & O to the Friday graves instead of keeping it on WEdnesday. I'm sure it would be a much more competitive timeslot if L & O were there against Lost and CSI: NY.
Marc, I thought that Thanksgivings Ugly Bettys numbers was its series low. I think that it was a new episode. So Thursdays numbers was the second series low.
10:30 p.m. Primetime Live Viewers: 6.36 million (#3), A18-49: 2.4/ 7 (#3) (Note: Due to the expanded Grey’s Anatomy lead-in, only the 10:30 p.m. portion of Primetime Live is being reported)
Much has been said of possibly airing MEDIUM out of HEROES. Loving MEDIUM, I was all ears. But I said the other day I didn't expect it to happen.
Last night I took the chance to watch the shows in sequence - HEROES encore at 10pm NBC, and MEDIUM at 11pm on Lifetime. Since HEROES is ongoing, it's somewhat hard to rate an individual ep. The MEDIUM ep was average for it, but still good.
Conclusion - these are very different types of entertainment. The biggest different is the pace - HEROES going at warp speed, MEDIUM gradually unfolding. HEROES, content spread out evenly the whole ep, MEDIUM, laying out tidbits for 3/4 of ep and then closing strong. The difference is striking when you watch them together. It is a serious wind- down.
But, there is also a compatibility that comes through as well.
Would this change of pace be welcome, or would it invite negative comparisons?
For now, I'm sticking with idea that they will try to build a new hit out of HEROES. And all this assumes that MEDIUM will be renewed and would be considered anyway for this slot.
Posts: 2807 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
I have no idea why the idea of Marc labeling Shark a winner seems to offend you so much. But, let's be honest, Marc has a really good record and history of dealings with ratings.
There may be an occasional hiccup, but I will happily stick with Marc's labels.
And in this case I just don't understand the argument you are trying to advance. Or why, for that matter, you try so passionately to advance that argument.
Here are the facts:
Shark wins its time period.
Shark (this week at least) wins its time period in the 18-49 demo.
If a PGA pro wins a tournament when Tiger takes the week off, it is still a win.
It is not a myth. Shark is a winner for CBS.
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Originally posted by AL: If you look closer at the 18-49 numbers on Thursday you will see how weak Shark was.
Shark 18-49 rating was 3.0. Which was a drop from 3.3 from its lead in. Its lead in, however, was a repeat, while Shark was new.
Scrubs, which generally is referred to as a loser by media like Marc, had a 2.9, just a smidge behind Shark. Scrubs, though, had a just a 2.4 from its lead in, 30 Rock. So in my book Scrubs is a winner, not a loser.
Ugly Betty, which gave a Down But Not Out, had a 3.0 rating, equal to Shark. And that was at the lower HUT hour of 8PM. Even 5th Grader had a higher rating, 3.2 than Shark. Also in the 8PM lower HUT lever hour, Earl and Office had 3.0 ratings. And Office was a repeat. So a repeat of the Office at an early hour gets an equal rating to a new Shark. And Shark is a winner?
So from what I could see, for the entire night on the big 4 networks, the only shows that got a lower 18-49 rating than a new episode of Shark were 30 Rock, a repeat of Trading Spouses, and by .01 of a rating point Scrubs.
Yet Shark is a winner?
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Originally posted by tvfan300: ER and Grey's lead out is not weak competition. What CSI: Miami has faced all season is weak competition. And the retention for Shark out of CSI is better than anything ABC has put out of Grey's Anatomy, better than anything NBC has put out of Heroes, and fairly close to slightly better than what Brothers and Sisters does out of Desperate Housewives.
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Originally posted by AL: I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
Do these labels really matter? I mean its just Marc's opinion and it really has no effect on the show.
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Originally posted by Fred Farrar: I have no idea why the idea of Marc labeling Shark a winner seems to offend you so much. But, let's be honest, Marc has a really good record and history of dealings with ratings.
There may be an occasional hiccup, but I will happily stick with Marc's labels.
And in this case I just don't understand the argument you are trying to advance. Or why, for that matter, you try so passionately to advance that argument.
Here are the facts:
Shark wins its time period.
Shark (this week at least) wins its time period in the 18-49 demo.
If a PGA pro wins a tournament when Tiger takes the week off, it is still a win.
It is not a myth. Shark is a winner for CBS.
quote:
Originally posted by AL: If you look closer at the 18-49 numbers on Thursday you will see how weak Shark was.
Shark 18-49 rating was 3.0. Which was a drop from 3.3 from its lead in. Its lead in, however, was a repeat, while Shark was new.
Scrubs, which generally is referred to as a loser by media like Marc, had a 2.9, just a smidge behind Shark. Scrubs, though, had a just a 2.4 from its lead in, 30 Rock. So in my book Scrubs is a winner, not a loser.
Ugly Betty, which gave a Down But Not Out, had a 3.0 rating, equal to Shark. And that was at the lower HUT hour of 8PM. Even 5th Grader had a higher rating, 3.2 than Shark. Also in the 8PM lower HUT lever hour, Earl and Office had 3.0 ratings. And Office was a repeat. So a repeat of the Office at an early hour gets an equal rating to a new Shark. And Shark is a winner?
So from what I could see, for the entire night on the big 4 networks, the only shows that got a lower 18-49 rating than a new episode of Shark were 30 Rock, a repeat of Trading Spouses, and by .01 of a rating point Scrubs.
Yet Shark is a winner?
quote:
Originally posted by tvfan300: ER and Grey's lead out is not weak competition. What CSI: Miami has faced all season is weak competition. And the retention for Shark out of CSI is better than anything ABC has put out of Grey's Anatomy, better than anything NBC has put out of Heroes, and fairly close to slightly better than what Brothers and Sisters does out of Desperate Housewives.
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Originally posted by AL: I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
your statement is a matter of opinion...you call cbs boring and say it has the same shows...well i could say that abc is shallow and caters only to female viewers, that is my opinion...
but have you looked at cbs lately?? first off jericho/survivor/ghost whisperer/amazing race/HIMYM/old christine/2.5 men/rules of engagement/the unit/shark are all non-procedurals...
with that said, you also need to look at cbs quality...cold case comes to mind when i say this word...that show is very underrated imo...
like nbc cbs has 3 franchise shows in csi...yes they are a bit similar (which is why i only watch one) but most nets have similar shows...
abc has dh/ga which are both just night time soaps...about rediculous neighborhoods (as if all those housewives in that neighborhood would all be that thin (not to mention slutty)); oh and greys anatomy, its a hospital for the over sexed, they dont really help anyone...you go there to see your doctor get it on with (seems like anyone)
lost is probably the only "smart" show, but even abc shallowness has crept into that show...
betty/b&s/boston legal...all t&a shows...no substance just meaningless jabber...
yes shallow can be fun, but shallow is shallow...
cbs may look boring but the scripts are great...abc on the other hand looks better but it seems its shows are just plain predictable.
oh, and the reason the office does not get good ratings vs 2.5 men is because the office is a show that can be funny (at times) but also can be irritating...2.5 men is just funny...fancy that a comedy that is funny....something abc knows nothing of...
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Originally posted by AL: You could ask the same question about several shows on NBC vs shows on CBS. CBS, in general has dull shows that are all the same. NBC has different types of shows which mostly get better critical reviews that CBS. For example, how could a quality sitcom like the Office suffer with 7 viewers for a new episode while a horrible sitcom like 2 1/2 Men get 15 million?
The answer, in part, is that CBS is in a positive cycle right now, while NBC is in a negative cycle. 10 years ago NBC could put any garbage on and they would get huge ratings. Meanwhile CBS could not get people to watch anything.
Now, that is not to say that NBC does not make some poor scheduling decisions. But 10 years ago NBC could put Raines on any day and time of the week and they would get a decent rating. Now it just does not work for them. If Raines was a CBS show, they could put it on Fridays at 9 just like NBC, they would get 11-12 million viewers. I mean they put a horrible show like Close to Home on there and it gets that many viewers.
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Originally posted by GuyNoir:
And veering off that topic, I wish I could figure out why Raines didn't click with a mass audience. It was well-written, had a clever premise and Jeff Goldblum is a blast to watch as the title character. Why is, say, Shark a breakout hit while this was ignored?
Posts: 409 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 09 November 2006
Originally posted by gdfriends: but have you looked at cbs lately?? first off jericho/survivor/ghost whisperer/amazing race/HIMYM/old christine/2.5 men/rules of engagement/the unit/shark are all non-procedurals...
with that said, you also need to look at cbs quality...cold case comes to mind when i say this word...that show is very underrated imo...
I don't know what everyone's definition is of procedural but I'm pretty sure that Shark and Ghost Whisperer both have self-contained episodes meaning a lot of the same stuff every week. To me, that's boring. Ditto to all those other procedurals and self contained shows. Even the Unit is that way somewhat, am I wrong? As for Cold Case being underrated, I've seen it. I thought there was really nothing special about it. Another CSI knockoff with a slight twist.
