Originally posted by AL: For the 1st week of the sweeps (next Friday 4/27) NBC is airing the final episodes of Identity and Raines. For the following 3 weeks they are airing 2 hour editions for Dateline (as if we need more of that).
For all 4 weeks they will be airing new episodes of Law and Order at 10PM.
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Originally posted by Red: Has NBC announced what they are doing on this night in May? I know Raines finale is next week, so what's going there? Dateline?
And those deadly Datelines will give Law & Order horrible lead-in numbers.
What a sad way for NBC execs to treat the franchise which has made the corporation hundreds of millions of dollars.
Actually, Dateline used to do very well on Fridays. I suspect 2 hour To Catch a Predator blocks will provide a better lead in than the deadly Identity and Raines.
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Originally posted by Fred Farrar:
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Originally posted by AL: For the 1st week of the sweeps (next Friday 4/27) NBC is airing the final episodes of Identity and Raines. For the following 3 weeks they are airing 2 hour editions for Dateline (as if we need more of that).
For all 4 weeks they will be airing new episodes of Law and Order at 10PM.
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Originally posted by Red: Has NBC announced what they are doing on this night in May? I know Raines finale is next week, so what's going there? Dateline?
And those deadly Datelines will give Law & Order horrible lead-in numbers.
What a sad way for NBC execs to treat the franchise which has made the corporation hundreds of millions of dollars.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Here's an idea...NBC should renew both (L&O) series but for only 13 episodes each. Let them share a time period, and it gives Law & Order a chance to say a proper goodbye. What do you think about that?
I think NBC should cancel L&O:CI and fold its best actors (like Chris Noth) into the Mothership. There are just not enough interesting NY crime stories to fill three versions of L&O.
I'd love if Dick Wolf could get Angie Harmon to return as the ADA. Since she left the show, the female ADA's have been either horrible actors (Elisabeth Rohm) or stiff and dull (Alana De La Garza). Then, with Chris Noth and Jesse Martin as the lead cops, the show might have a chance again.
And veering off that topic, I wish I could figure out why Raines didn't click with a mass audience. It was well-written, had a clever premise and Jeff Goldblum is a blast to watch as the title character. Why is, say, Shark a breakout hit while this was ignored?
Posts: 99 | Location: New York | Registered: 20 September 2006
Simple. Shark airs behind CSI and Raines airs on Friday behind Identity. And while I do enjoy both shows, I would take Raines over Shark anyday.
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Originally posted by GuyNoir: And veering off that topic, I wish I could figure out why Raines didn't click with a mass audience. It was well-written, had a clever premise and Jeff Goldblum is a blast to watch as the title character. Why is, say, Shark a breakout hit while this was ignored?
Originally posted by Marc Berman: Here's an idea...NBC should renew both (L&O) series but for only 13 episodes each. Let them share a time period, and it gives Law & Order a chance to say a proper goodbye. What do you think about that?
I think NBC should cancel L&O:CI and fold its best actors (like Chris Noth) into the Mothership. There are just not enough interesting NY crime stories to fill three versions of L&O.
I'd love if Dick Wolf could get Angie Harmon to return as the ADA. Since she left the show, the female ADA's have been either horrible actors (Elisabeth Rohm) or stiff and dull (Alana De La Garza). Then, with Chris Noth and Jesse Martin as the lead cops, the show might have a chance again.
I think that has been the biggeset problem this season, the quality of the actors (although the writing is another whole issue as well). De La Garza and Govich are weak to start but putting them next to Waterston, Merkerson and Martin makes the glaring deficiencies even more obvious. They are attractive but no acting chops. The audience for L&O is a little more sophisticated than the audience for the Dukes of Hazzard or Charlie's Angels. You need something aside from breasts and legs to function in this cast. Jerry Orbach was not a big hit in the show because of his sex appeal. Wolf tried to get to broaden the audience for the show with T&A and ended up alienating the core who were faithful followers with the dummied down scripts and inept actors.
If the show comes back they need to ditch the dead weight in the acting and writing departments. If they don't it won't make it the end of season 18.
You could ask the same question about several shows on NBC vs shows on CBS. CBS, in general has dull shows that are all the same. NBC has different types of shows which mostly get better critical reviews that CBS. For example, how could a quality sitcom like the Office suffer with 7 viewers for a new episode while a horrible sitcom like 2 1/2 Men get 15 million?
The answer, in part, is that CBS is in a positive cycle right now, while NBC is in a negative cycle. 10 years ago NBC could put any garbage on and they would get huge ratings. Meanwhile CBS could not get people to watch anything.
Now, that is not to say that NBC does not make some poor scheduling decisions. But 10 years ago NBC could put Raines on any day and time of the week and they would get a decent rating. Now it just does not work for them. If Raines was a CBS show, they could put it on Fridays at 9 just like NBC, they would get 11-12 million viewers. I mean they put a horrible show like Close to Home on there and it gets that many viewers.
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Originally posted by GuyNoir:
And veering off that topic, I wish I could figure out why Raines didn't click with a mass audience. It was well-written, had a clever premise and Jeff Goldblum is a blast to watch as the title character. Why is, say, Shark a breakout hit while this was ignored?
Originally posted by AL: You could ask the same question about several shows on NBC vs shows on CBS. CBS, in general has dull shows that are all the same. NBC has different types of shows which mostly get better critical reviews that CBS. For example, how could a quality sitcom like the Office suffer with 7 viewers for a new episode while a horrible sitcom like 2 1/2 Men get 15 million?
The answer, in part, is that CBS is in a positive cycle right now, while NBC is in a negative cycle. 10 years ago NBC could put any garbage on and they would get huge ratings. Meanwhile CBS could not get people to watch anything.
Now, that is not to say that NBC does not make some poor scheduling decisions. But 10 years ago NBC could put Raines on any day and time of the week and they would get a decent rating. Now it just does not work for them. If Raines was a CBS show, they could put it on Fridays at 9 just like NBC, they would get 11-12 million viewers. I mean they put a horrible show like Close to Home on there and it gets that many viewers.
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Originally posted by GuyNoir:
And veering off that topic, I wish I could figure out why Raines didn't click with a mass audience. It was well-written, had a clever premise and Jeff Goldblum is a blast to watch as the title character. Why is, say, Shark a breakout hit while this was ignored?
I really like Raines and I wished that it stayed on Thursdays because I was much faithful watcher than when it was move on Fridays. I think that Jeff is very funny, and also I am watching it because I am a fan of Malik Yoba. Now it is on Fridays I have to choose watching Jon Seda on Close to Home over Raines since they are on the same timeslot. I really wished that Jon was on some other show that shows his talent because being on older skewing, multiple cancellation attempts tv show isn't helping his career, and also his younger fans refused to watch it because it doesn't interest him. I really can't stand how his character is a one-dimensional detective and a second fiddler to David James Ellliot's character. I also agreed that if Close to Home gets canceled, I won't missed it either. But either way, once this season ends with the hope I am getting my payoffs, I won't watch it next year. You are also right that CBS needs to take more risk and that is what they are doing next fall because right now they are CBS=Crime Broadcasting Station. I do watch Raines on the internet but I guess that way doesn't helping the ratings. Also I heard they stop production on Raines and I just don't see it come back next year. Also Raines would have been a perfect lead out to Ghost Whisperers.
The fact that NBC obviously didn't believe in Raines didn't help.
Delaying the premiere, cutting the order from 13 to six -- none of the signs were good.
One possible reason for Shark's success is the same as for many of those "dull" CBS shows: the network leaves them in the same time period week after week.
It worked with CSI and Without A Trace and on and on over the past decade.
Unless CBS sees signs of disaster (like Smith, for example) with a few exceptions, it leaves its shows alone for the audience to find without a GPS system.
I'm really surprised that the Black Donnellys didn't get cut instead of Raines. Plus, Raines seemed like the perfect fit to Mondays behind Heroes or even a Wed. run with the similar appealing Medium would've been better.
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Originally posted by Fred Farrar: The fact that NBC obviously didn't believe in Raines didn't help.
Delaying the premiere, cutting the order from 13 to six -- none of the signs were good.
One possible reason for Shark's success is the same as for many of those "dull" CBS shows: the network leaves them in the same time period week after week.
It worked with CSI and Without A Trace and on and on over the past decade.
Unless CBS sees signs of disaster (like Smith, for example) with a few exceptions, it leaves its shows alone for the audience to find without a GPS system.
I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
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Originally posted by Fred Farrar: The fact that NBC obviously didn't believe in Raines didn't help.
Delaying the premiere, cutting the order from 13 to six -- none of the signs were good.
One possible reason for Shark's success is the same as for many of those "dull" CBS shows: the network leaves them in the same time period week after week.
It worked with CSI and Without A Trace and on and on over the past decade.
Unless CBS sees signs of disaster (like Smith, for example) with a few exceptions, it leaves its shows alone for the audience to find without a GPS system.
I think Raines would have worked on another night. The premiere got much better ratings on a Thursday than TBD got behind Heroes/Deal or No Deal.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: I'm really surprised that the Black Donnellys didn't get cut instead of Raines. Plus, Raines seemed like the perfect fit to Mondays behind Heroes or even a Wed. run with the similar appealing Medium would've been better.
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Originally posted by Fred Farrar: The fact that NBC obviously didn't believe in Raines didn't help.
Delaying the premiere, cutting the order from 13 to six -- none of the signs were good.
One possible reason for Shark's success is the same as for many of those "dull" CBS shows: the network leaves them in the same time period week after week.
It worked with CSI and Without A Trace and on and on over the past decade.
Unless CBS sees signs of disaster (like Smith, for example) with a few exceptions, it leaves its shows alone for the audience to find without a GPS system.
Just out of curiousity, and seeing how bad NBC is now w/its sitcoms/comedies...What was Will & Grace's numbers like in the last season? Also, does NBC actually even have a sitcom anymore?
Posts: 2649 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 27 January 2007
ER and Grey's lead out is not weak competition. What CSI: Miami has faced all season is weak competition. And the retention for Shark out of CSI is better than anything ABC has put out of Grey's Anatomy, better than anything NBC has put out of Heroes, and fairly close to slightly better than what Brothers and Sisters does out of Desperate Housewives.
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Originally posted by AL: I don't really think the reasons you state are reasons why Raines did not catch on.
The common viewer does not know that NBC delayed the premire. The common viewer does not know that NBC cut the episode order.
I believe a couple of years ago Grey's Anatomy had its premiere delayed and episode order cut. Yet it caught on big time.
Raines did not catch on because NBC does not have the mass viewership elsewhere on its schedule to promote and let people know about it. And it did not have any lead in its either of its time periods to gain a sampling.
And you speak of Shark as a success. Yet this is really a myth, as Shark has really been a loser if you look deeper into the numbers. For example, this week I believe it had it lowest 18-49 number for the season, yet Marc lists it as a winner. I don't get that. It typically loses a huge portion of the CSI audience against weak competition. But somehow it is a winner.
