I know i'm gonna get some bad comments for saying this but already, last nights Office episode was overrated, it wasn't THAT great. A few solid laugh-out-loud moments, yeah but I thought 30 Rock's episode was alot better.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jamie,
Nice to see very good ratings for The Office; it's a great show and deserves them.
I agree with those saying 30 Rock just isn't that good. I've watched an episode or two and didn't think it was that special. And I've seen many commercials promoting it. Perhaps it started out well but I think it's being overrated by some because of Alec Baldwin being on it (as well as Tina Fey). I think if it's as good as some say it is it needs to eventually get some decent ratings. It seems though that its ratings are falling a little bit instead.
A 3rd season for the show is warranted because it's received some big awards and critical acclaim, but if people still aren't watching after a 3rd year maybe that's proof it's not as great as it's hyped up to be?
It simply spins them in new ways or with a different angle.
Has it occurred to you that maybe The Office, for all its obvious predecessors, succeeds, as they did, by actually drawing on real life experiences--whereas 30 Rock is basically a fiction about a fiction, derived from earlier fictions? Hell, it even INVITES earlier fictions, like Seinfeld, to appear, and basically pretend that they are like their TV characters. It takes us further and further away from real life--which would be fine, if it was an entertaining fantasy. But don't you think an entertaining fantasy would be getting slightly better ratings?
I totally agree with so much of the positive stuff you said about the office. I have been a huge fan of the office since day one. I can literally remember watching the Pilot episode like 5 times before Diversity Day even aired.
Believe me, I know the office. And although the style is DRASTICALLY different between the two shows, i find them both entertaining. It's interesting because I think you hit the nail on the head with "30 Rock is basically a fiction about a fiction, derived from earlier fictions." And i think they pull it off brilliantly. And also you mentioned that "It even INVITES earlier fictions, like Seinfeld, to appear, and basically pretend that they are like their TV characters. It takes us further and further away from real life." I thought that was a stroke of genius on the show's part.
Now i'm not foolish enough to try and compare The Office and 30 Rock. They are VASTLY different in almost every conceivable way. But in the same way that The Office mimics real life, 30 Rock parodies the parodies of real life. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but both extremely clever.
Originally posted by PennNova: Nice to see very good ratings for The Office; it's a great show and deserves them.
I agree with those saying 30 Rock just isn't that good. I've watched an episode or two and didn't think it was that special. And I've seen many commercials promoting it. Perhaps it started out well but I think it's being overrated by some because of Alec Baldwin being on it (as well as Tina Fey). I think if it's as good as some say it is it needs to eventually get some decent ratings. It seems though that its ratings are falling a little bit instead.
A 3rd season for the show is warranted because it's received some big awards and critical acclaim, but if people still aren't watching after a 3rd year maybe that's proof it's not as great as it's hyped up to be?
I think 30 Rock's ratings have risen a little, maybe only be a few hundred thousand... but still.
Originally posted by Marc Berman: NBC sitcoms The Office (Viewers: #3, 9.22 million; A18-49: #2, 4.8/12)
-- "Better Off Ted," Wednesdays at some time or another at some point or another in the near future. Because we can't all live in mansions and not ever work like the people on "Modern Family."
30 Rock is an acquired taste and we've acquired it so glad to see it returning for another season. I'll take quality over quantity any day and a good network has a balance of both.
I totally agree with so much of the positive stuff you said about the office.
Would you believe I thought The Office was a stupid idea when I first heard about it? I watched a few minutes, and it won me over. And 30 Rock, which I originally had a somewhat more positive impression of (if only because Studio 60 was so much worse), I just can't warm up to. I'm sorry, it's a very mediocre program, in spite of all the talented people connected to it.
quote:
I have been a huge fan of the office since day one.
Well, I wasn't. Hell, I'm not a huge fan of ANY show from Day One. How does that even happen? I've enjoyed premieres, sure--but it's always taken me a while to say "I'm a fan", and I'm always leery of saying it. I think fandom diminishes enjoyment of things that should just be evaluated on the merits. If I laugh, it's funny. If I don't, it's not.
quote:
Believe me, I know the office. And although the style is DRASTICALLY different between the two shows, i find them both entertaining.
Maybe you like The Office for different reasons than I do. Otherwise, The Office wouldn't double its 18-49 rating after 30 Rock, even though it's up against tougher competition.
quote:
It's interesting because I think you hit the nail on the head with "30 Rock is basically a fiction about a fiction, derived from earlier fictions." And i think they pull it off brilliantly.
And I think it's a total waste of airtime. And film. And money. And etc.
quote:
And also you mentioned that "It even INVITES earlier fictions, like Seinfeld, to appear, and basically pretend that they are like their TV characters. It takes us further and further away from real life." I thought that was a stroke of genius on the show's part.
We have a very different definition of genius. You seem to think it means "copying everybody who came before you in an archly self-aware way." Have I mentioned I'm not a big Joss Whedon fan?
quote:
Now i'm not foolish enough to try and compare The Office and 30 Rock.
No, of course not. (braces for the comparison)
quote:
They are VASTLY different in almost every conceivable way.
Mainly in that The Office is funny and relevant, and 30 Rock is dull and pointless.
quote:
But in the same way that The Office mimics real life, 30 Rock parodies the parodies of real life.
quote:
They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but both extremely clever.
I'm all for opposite ends of the spectrum. But 30 Rock is just plain colorless.
30 Rock is an acquired taste and we've acquired it so glad to see it returning for another season. I'll take quality over quantity any day and a good network has a balance of both.
And on Thursday nights, NBC currently has one show with both, and four with neither.
I know i'm gonna get flammed for saying this but already, last nights Office episode was overrated, it wasn't THAT great. A few solid laugh-out-loud moments, yeah but I thought 30 Rock's episode was alot better.
Nice to see very good ratings for The Office; it's a great show and deserves them.
I agree with those saying 30 Rock just isn't that good. I've watched an episode or two and didn't think it was that special. And I've seen many commercials promoting it. Perhaps it started out well but I think it's being overrated by some because of Alec Baldwin being on it (as well as Tina Fey). I think if it's as good as some say it is it needs to eventually get some decent ratings. It seems though that its ratings are falling a little bit instead.
A 3rd season for the show is warranted because it's received some big awards and critical acclaim, but if people still aren't watching after a 3rd year maybe that's proof it's not as great as it's hyped up to be?
Originally posted by pisher: We have a very different definition of genius. You seem to think it means "copying everybody who came before you in an archly self-aware way."
I think genuis can have many different forms. It almost seems like you're saying that there is one right way to do things. "The Office is superior because it does comedy the right way." I'm afraid that if your thinking was applied to an area such as art, there wouldn't be any. Or maybe there would be one ultimate "piece of art" because, obviously this is what art should be.
My only argument is that 30 Rock does it's own thing extrememly well. You seem to think that "it's own thing" doesn't warrent appreciation. I don't know why. I understand if YOU don't like it. That's a preference. There are many pieces of art that are commonly recieved as "bad art" or trash. On the other hand, there are many pieces of art that arn't "my style" but I can still appreciate that they are well done.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pisher: Mainly in that The Office is funny and relevant, and 30 Rock is dull and pointless. [QUOTE]
Originally posted by Riff Rafferty: This show is unfunny.
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Berman: NBC sitcoms The Office (Viewers: #3, 9.22 million; A18-49: #2, 4.8/12)
Agree
VOTE IN THE PIF NETWORK GAME: http://pifeedback.com/eve/foru...93910104/m/579107772 TONIGHT: ---> NEW <--- EPISODES OF SURVIVORS: REVISITED, REALITY UPDATE, DR. HEART, GENERATIONS APART, HIGH SCHOOL SUPERSTARS!, AND SPORTS WORLD!
I can understand why some people dont like 30 Rock, I personally love both 30 Rock and The Office (but I like The Office more) and both are very different in their own way. But I dont think you can call the show "bad," its just that its not your humor. But I also dont see how anyone can deny all of this either....
2007 Golden Globes *Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series (Comedy or Musical)- Alec Baldwin (WON)
2008 Golden Globes *Best Performance by an Actress in a Television Series (Comedy or Musical)- Tina Fey (WON) *Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series (Comedy or Musical)- Alec Baldwin (NOMINATED) *Best Television Series (Comedy or Musical) NOMINATED
2007 Emmys *Outstanding Comedy Series- WON *Oustanding Lead Actor in a Comedy- Alec Baldwin (NOMINATED) *Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy- Tina Fey (NOMINATED) *Outstanding Writing for a Comedy- 2 NOMINATIONS
And that doesnt count the awards and nominations that its gotten from the Creative Arts Emmy Awards, Satellite Awards, Screen Actors Guild Awards, Television Critics Association Awards, Writers Guild of America Awards, GLAAD Awards, NCAAP Awards, Peabody Awards, etc.
I think 30 Rock is at a point (the same point where Arrested Development was), that if it doesnt do better during its 3rd season, then all the critical acclaim in the world wont save it.
Not that I agree with them completely or anything. The process that the nets go through (if they're doing a good job) would be WAY more complex than this simple little equation. There are so many factors that go into deciding whether a show will go or stay or where it will be on a schedule.
It's just a start to getting the "total eyeball" crowd won over to sane thinking. ;-)
Unfortunately, not nearly as many as mediocrity posing as genius.
quote:
It almost seems like you're saying that there is one right way to do things.
Only because you don't listen.
I'm a fan of Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, Laurel & Hardy, WC Fields, The Marx Brothers, Bob Hope, Warner Brothers cartoons, Fleischer Brothers cartoons, Preston Sturges screwballs, The Honeymooners, Monty Python, SCTV, 70's SNL (it was never worth a damn after '79), not to mention Shakespeare, Moliere, Sheridan, Wilde, and Shaw.
Not one of them got me to laugh the same way, but they've all gotten me to laugh.
quote:
"The Office is superior because it does comedy the right way."
I love how you put quote marks around something you just said yourself and attributed to me.
quote:
I'm afraid that if your thinking was applied to an area such as art, there wouldn't be any.
I'm afraid of a world where corporate crap like 30 Rock is considered art, and real artists beg for scraps.
quote:
Or maybe there would be one ultimate "piece of art" because, obviously this is what art should be.
Do you ever, in the midst of typing this twaddle, stop and think "hey, I'm talking about sitcoms here--lighten up already!"
quote:
My only argument is that 30 Rock does it's own thing extrememly well.
That isn't an argument at all, it's an OPINION.
quote:
You seem to think that "it's own thing" doesn't warrent appreciation.
No, I think comedy that isn't funny doesn't warrant appreciation. I obviously am capable of appreciating many different approaches. But in this case, we have a failed approach to a failed subject.
quote:
I don't know why.
You don't even know what I'm saying. I'm all for shows that are different. People have been able to get into all kinds of shows that did the same thing in a new way--30 Rock's many influences were almost all big hits in their day. Because they really WERE new, and fun, and had something real to say, as well as bellylaughs to share.
The reason 30 Rock isn't catching on is that there's nothing to catch. It's not just a show about nothing--it's a show that IS nothing. And if it were what you say, it would show at least some growth in the ratings. No, ratings don't prove quality either way--but this is a show that has been given plenty of time and opportunity to find a large enough audience, and it just can't.
If so many millions of people could get into Seinfeld, after a show start, when Seinfeld was a far more abrasive challenging piece of work, then you have to ask--why is 30 Rock so much harder for people to get? Because there's no there there, square.
quote:
I understand if YOU don't like it.
No you don't, and that's why you just said my opinions, widely applied, would be the DEATH OF ART.
quote:
That's a preference. There are many pieces of art that are commonly recieved as "bad art" or trash.
Yes, but the opposite is far more frequently proven true over time, and so shall it be with 30 Rock.
quote:
On the other hand, there are many pieces of art that arn't "my style" but I can still appreciate that they are well done.
Every single show on the air has fans who think it's well done. Would you therefore say every single show on the air IS well done? It's well done for them, but that's all. And that's all 30 Rock is--well done for the handful of people who like it, and not for anyone else. Just like any number of shortlived cult shows that tried and failed to be something more.
quote:
Daaaang, such hostility :-) lol
Hey, I didn't call it THE DEATH OF ART.
Since art and 30 Rock have nothing to do with each other.
