Didn't both of them have sucessful shows on in the past. I know In Living Color and My Wife and Kids were both sucessful. Not so sure about Cedric's show. Wow. Are we really still living in a world where we judge an unseen project as a flop because the lead is black? Sounds awefully racist to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:

quote:

Originally posted by Chimera:
Speaking of traditional multi-cam comedies, ABC seems to be making a bit more effort in developing and hopefully picking them up. Two projects with Cedric the Entertainer and Damon Wayans are in the mix for next season, and Cedric's comedy has been ordered to pilot. I can see an hour of these series together, either on Tuesdays or Fridays @ 8pm next season.

This doesn't sound like a very good idea. Cedric and Damon Wayans are:
1. not funny (at least Cedric, the Wayans brothers can be but are very unequal)
2. not family-friendly
3. not really popular
4. black (not a problem if they don't take the leading role, but that's unlikely in Cedric's case)

That's two flops waiting to happen.

I'm saying it like it is, any top-rated TV show with an African-American lead on the air today? Remember Day Break? TV is all about the lowest common denominator, so leading actors have to be white/heterosexual on network television.

The Cosby Show was 20 years ago, any other example? And Cedric the Entertainer is no Bill Cosby.

quote:

Originally posted by TV-aholic:
First, Damon Wayns is funny and is the funniest within the Wayans family. (love to see a Handi-man series ).
And DW's last sitcom was a family comedy. You might be confusing Marlon and Shawn (WB's The Wayan Bros.) with Damon Wayon (My Wife & Kids, Major Payne, Blankman)

Ah you're right I forgot there are three in the family (or four?). Either way they are all great (the funniest spoof movie since The Naked Gun is probably Don't Drink Your Juice in the Hood...) but the "other" Wayans movies have been terrible lately (White Chick!).

I think looking to race as an excuse is wrong. Most of television today is dominated by reality and there would be a sucessful show featuring an african-american if the show was in fact good. The Cosby Show is not the only sucessful black-centered show we can reference. Look at 227, Amen, Benson, A Different World, Family Matters, The Jeffersons, Good Times, and Sanford & Son. All shows were about and featuring african-americans. Sucess is not dependent on the color of someone, but whether or not the show is any good.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:
I'm saying it like it is, any top-rated TV show with an African-American lead on the air today? Remember Day Break? TV is all about the lowest common denominator, so leading actors have to be white/heterosexual on network television.

The Cosby Show was 20 years ago, any other example? And Cedric the Entertainer is no Bill Cosby.

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Originally posted by robert:
When you have a show breaking 4 million viewers and you renew it at the last moment you certinly don't love the show.

So, Which one hour shows with less viewers does she 'love' in favor of OTH and thusly renewed without 'waiting to the last minute'?

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When you give it a 1 million lead-in you certinly don't love the show.

You can't blame the effects of the WGA strike on Ostroff or CW in general. When OTH was set to retuirn, the rest of the shows were supposed to have half a season of episodes left. The only 'solution' to the problem you claim here is for OTH to have been a leadout for Smallville or for OTH to have been held another month until Feb. sweeps brought some other new shows back. Honestly, bringing OTH back before Feb. sweeps is not a sign of 'hatred'.

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When you put an episode against AI you certinly don't love the show
And i agree the midseason replacment turned out to be a good idea but the reason why OTH didn't return in october was not beacause of an Ostroff's brilliant idea to wait longer, but beacause she didn't want something like OTH to interfere with the launching of her pet show GG

Wanting to launch new shows at the same time that all the other networks launch new shows is not a sign of 'hatred', either. Perhaps CW should have launched OTH on Sunday rather than starting the season with ANTM encores, but given the 4-year time jump on OTH and, later, the effects of the WGA strike, holding OTH for mid-season was clearly a good move.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:

quote:

Originally posted by TV-aholic:
First, Damon Wayns is funny and is the funniest within the Wayans family. (love to see a Handi-man series ).
And DW's last sitcom was a family comedy. You might be confusing Marlon and Shawn (WB's The Wayan Bros.) with Damon Wayon (My Wife & Kids, Major Payne, Blankman)

Ah you're right I forgot there are three in the family (or four?). Either way they are all great (the funniest spoof movie since The Naked Gun is probably Don't Drink Your Juice in the Hood...) but the "other" Wayans movies have been terrible lately (White Chick!).

White Chicks was very good, Little Man was terrible. It depends on everyone's taste.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:
I'm saying it like it is, any top-rated TV show with an African-American lead on the air today? Remember Day Break? TV is all about the lowest common denominator, so leading actors have to be white/heterosexual on network television.

The Cosby Show was 20 years ago, any other example? And Cedric the Entertainer is no Bill Cosby.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Maybe you can explain us why Will Smith is the most succesfull actor right now according to your theory.

quote:

Originally posted by whatsonpop:
Sucess is not dependent on the color of someone, but whether or not the show is any good.

Are you running for office?

I don't want to burst your bubble, but you should watch more primetime TV if you really believe that.

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Are you running for office?

I don't want to burst your bubble, but you should watch more primetime TV if you really believe that.

It's not quite that simple, but yeah, you're basically right.

People tend to want to see shows about people who look like them (or how they wish they looked, same difference).

It's not necessarily racism, per se.

It's not terribly admirable either, is it?

The Wire would probably not be a major hit in any circumstance, because it's too brutally honest and intelligent. But no question it would be far more successful with the HBO audience if its cast wasn't well over 50% black.

It's one thing to admire and identify with individual black actors, and another to enter a world where whites are the minority (which is going to happen in this country in a few more decades, and a lot of people don't want to be reminded of that).

And blacks don't watch a lot of shows where white people are predominant either.

It'd be nice if it was entirely about quality, but then that wouldn't be the case if everybody was the same color.

Race matters, but it's not all that matters.

And it's not so bad being in the minority--I live in a mainly black/latino neighborhood. I used to live around white yuppies. This is better.

Not running for office, just trying to understand how someone can be so narrow-minded. I sincerely don't believe that a show suceeds just because there is a white straight man in the lead. If that were the case, Joey would be the number one show on television. If the entertainment value is there, then viewers will tune in. Simple as that. Given your theory, everyone of our American Idols thus far would be white straight men.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:

quote:

Originally posted by whatsonpop:
Sucess is not dependent on the color of someone, but whether or not the show is any good.

Are you running for office?

I don't want to burst your bubble, but you should watch more primetime TV if you really believe that.

quote:

Originally posted by robert:

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:
I'm saying it like it is, any top-rated TV show with an African-American lead on the air today? Remember Day Break? TV is all about the lowest common denominator, so leading actors have to be white/heterosexual on network television.

The Cosby Show was 20 years ago, any other example? And Cedric the Entertainer is no Bill Cosby.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Maybe you can explain us why Will Smith is the most succesfull actor right now according to your theory.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by whatsonpop:
If the entertainment value is there, then viewers will tune in. Simple as that.

That is oversimplifying things greatly. There is a ton of evidence that 'white' folks don't tune in to 'black' shows. If they don't ever tune in, they won't ever know if it is good or not. Citing 'Cosby' as proof to the contrary is silly since Cosby had a mountain of popularity behind him before that show ever hit the air. Does it mean that the Wayans or Cedric cannot have a successful show? Of course not. But it does mean that they will have a harder time finding an audience even if their shows are good. Personally, I don't give Cedric much of a shot at all since he isn't particularly funny and certainly isn't funny in a primetime comedy sort of way. When his show fails, it won't be because he is black.

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Given your theory, everyone of our American Idols thus far would be white straight men.

It has been long known that sports and music stars are given an exception in this debate topic.

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Originally posted by whatsonpop:
Not running for office, just trying to understand how someone can be so narrow-minded. I sincerely don't believe that a show suceeds just because there is a white straight man in the lead.

Not only a white straight man, the public (or network executives, take your pick, but not me): it can also be a white straight woman. Although a man is probably safer for the ratings.

Recent top-rated TV series with a white lead character are rare, but here is a small list: GA, CSI, DH, House, Heroes, Lost, 24, The Office, Smallville... I could probably find more by looking at the top20 (or 50?) series with the highest audience.

But it's just a coincidence and "sucess is not dependent on the color of someone"...?

quote:

Originally posted by whatsonpop:
Not running for office, just trying to understand how someone can be so narrow-minded. I sincerely don't believe that a show suceeds just because there is a white straight man in the lead. If that were the case, Joey would be the number one show on television. If the entertainment value is there, then viewers will tune in. Simple as that. Given your theory, everyone of our American Idols thus far would be white straight men.

Obviously, quality counts for a lot. A white man in the lead doesn't guarantee a hit any more than a black woman in the lead guarantees a failure. But I do think shows with non-white leads have to be better than their white counterparts to be hits. If you have two mediocre shows, one with a white cast and one with a black case, the white one will most likely do better. The CW' Monday night comedies may be as funny or funnier than the CBS comedies, but even if they were on ABC, they wouldn't get the same numbers.

While I don't think it guarantees failure, I do think it is harder for a show headlined by a non-white to be a major hit. It's not even about racism per se. I think viewers like to be able to relate to the main character and many people think it is harder to relate to someone of a different color. I'm not saying it's right or that we shouldn't work to change that, but it is true.

I don't think anyone should not greenlight a project because the leads aren't white, but I do think the expectations will be lower (as far as ratings and audience).

Listen I'm not gonna argue against your racism. Perhaps you should tell all the people that are going to see Will Smith movies, Watching Oprah everyday, and voting for Barack Obama that they should give their attention to a white straight male. Or perhaps a white straight woman.

quote:

Originally posted by Zitrone:

quote:

Originally posted by whatsonpop:
Not running for office, just trying to understand how someone can be so narrow-minded. I sincerely don't believe that a show suceeds just because there is a white straight man in the lead.

Not only a white straight man, the public (or network executives, take your pick, but not me): it can also be a white straight woman. Although a man is probably safer for the ratings.

Recent top-rated TV series with a white lead character are rare, but here is a small list: GA, CSI, DH, House, Heroes, Lost, 24, The Office, Smallville... I could probably find more by looking at the top20 (or 50?) series with the highest audience.

But it's just a coincidence and "sucess is not dependent on the color of someone"...?