I completely disagree with this quote. A show's success is not based on its execution, but how well it fits the networks audience. The best example I can give is Arrested Development. It was brilliantly done, won many awards, and yet it was cancelled due to poor ratings. A show like Arrested Development never worked with FOX's other material at the time and thus the audience wasn't accustomed to that style of comedy.
Since Swingtown was mentioned, I'll use it as an example. Even if Swingtown was brilliant in execution, which to be fair to CBS is wasn't, it would still fail. There isn't an established audience that watches CBS regularly to appeal to. CBS figured that out real fast and dumped it in the summer to burn it off. There is a reason why every drama that does well has a crime/procedural element to it. Nina herself even said they make shows that appeal to the "wheelhouse of crime". Which is true, their successful shows do.
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce:
Nina Tassler - "If shows don't succeed, it's not because they are daring or different, there was something wrong in their execution."
Yea but the point is that viewers are watching these repeats on TV.
By the way, this computer is a shared computer in a household of 5 and I prefer to use most of the time I get to play games, check email and work.
I've watched Heroes on NBC's site whenever I missed an episode. I also watched Sliders on Hulu. And currently Burn Notice.
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Originally posted by mushu_jj: I'm not totally against summer repeats. Summer repeats of newer shows are a good idea imo but from the looks of things you have a computer and most of the nets have great online players. I would hope that most of the nets would follow in ABC's footsteps with the likes of Lost and simply have the whole season available online all the time, adding new eps as the show goes on. I'm not overly thrilled about any of these new programs coming up. Its very likely I'll go back and watch the first few seasons of Lost I didn't watch when they first came around. I'm currently watching Gossip Girl online through a spanish you-tube like service. The spanish closed captioning doesn't bother me and I get to work on my espanol at the same time.
Posts: 1543 | Location: NY | Registered: 17 November 2006
I understand network brand well but I think it has become an easy cop-out in explaining the failure of shows. And I think you've picked a bad example in ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT. I'll take your "wrong network" argument a step further and say it was really a "cable brand" show and would not have fit any broadcast network's audience at the time that it aired.
Also, on SWINGTOWN, did CBS just figure out last year that it was out of brand, which they would have known in its early stages of development, or did they figure out it wasn't very good?
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Originally posted by WlcmDoNotDisturb90210: I completely disagree with this quote. A show's success is not based on its execution, but how well it fits the networks audience. The best example I can give is Arrested Development. It was brilliantly done, won many awards, and yet it was cancelled due to poor ratings. A show like Arrested Development never worked with FOX's other material at the time and thus the audience wasn't accustomed to that style of comedy.
Since Swingtown was mentioned, I'll use it as an example. Even if Swingtown was brilliant in execution, which to be fair to CBS is wasn't, it would still fail. There isn't an established audience that watches CBS regularly to appeal to. CBS figured that out real fast and dumped it in the summer to burn it off. There is a reason why every drama that does well has a crime/procedural element to it. Nina herself even said they make shows that appeal to the "wheelhouse of crime". Which is true, their successful shows do.
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce:
Nina Tassler - "If shows don't succeed, it's not because they are daring or different, there was something wrong in their execution."
Posts: 2842 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 13 December 2006
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Will be interesting to see dumont's updated Sweeps numbers and see how much ABC has fallen behind and if 4th place is a solid placing.
ABC will get its weekly boost tonight with Wipeout. It will remain solidly in 4th place in viewers and households, but CBS and ABC are still close in the demo.
Well, all three are close together in the demo.
CBS' Monday-Tuesday combo is stronger than ABC's M-T combo, so CBS should still comeout ahead. NBC should stay in 2nd, in the demo, come thursday morning.
Unless ABC's Tuesday schedule comes in lower than what it's been averaging, ABC and CBS will probably tie in the demo for the sweep period.
This week's thoughts from me: -Why the hell did the mole go down to a series low in viewers and demo? Were that many people Alex fans? Why did the drop go so low? Did people forget it was on or was their a special or rememberable episode of something else airing last night? -Why Abc hasn't tried even once moving the mole to the 8pm or 9pm hour yet this season is behind me and a bunch of crap. Couldn't do any worse than they are now and could only do better. -Told everyone Paul wasn't the mole! Never assume anything is lock, ESPECIALLY with reality tv....Although my pick (craig) is looking more iffy now with Paul appearing to go after him as the mole. So that either means everyone thought the mole was craig, or just nicole and paul did and nicole answered the quiz faster. Either way, last night's execution was a shocker! I thought Nicole was gone for sure. I'm still sticking with my pick as Craig, with Mark to win it. I think Mark is the mole if Craig isn't. If it is indeed Nicole, she was too obvious and it will piss me off. -I also thought Paul was too obvious, and so I'm glad he wasn't the mole -When the host was eating an apple everyone thought it was Paul because he's from "The Big Apple" but maybe it's a favorite food of Craig or Mark's or it meant that the mole likes to eat (Craig)? -I'm pumped 90210 is 2 hour premiere. Prison break is 2 hours on monday and 90210 on tuesday. Damn can't wait to get my fix! All I gotta say is I better have frickin cable hooked up when I move into that apartment or I am not gonna a happy camper! No internet hook-up is a possiblity as well! Might have to go watch it in the library. Hopefully they have wireless hook-up and if so I hope my computer has the battery to last 2 hours. Who knows? -I wonder if they are going to reveal the mole's identity next week or wait like they did in the past. If they were smart, they'd wait, because the few viewers it gets probably only want to know who the mole is, and don't care how they deceived people or care about clues, so if they reveal the mole next week the final reunion show will probably get worse ratings.
While this is true. Out of place good shows can still find audiences. If a show is executed well, it can at least keep ratings stable even if it's ratings aren't good enough for the show to last very long.
quote:
Originally posted by WlcmDoNotDisturb90210: I completely disagree with this quote. A show's success is not based on its execution, but how well it fits the networks audience.
Because people didn't want to watch. The show has a vocal and annoying fanbase, I give it credit for that. But to most viewers it was nothing more than another show that the critics are wrong about.
quote:
The best example I can give is Arrested Development. It was brilliantly done, won many awards, and yet it was cancelled due to poor ratings.
Do you mean the crappy style of comedy? I'm not sure how much of an audience FOX thought there was for that.
quote:
A show like Arrested Development never worked with FOX's other material at the time and thus the audience wasn't accustomed to that style of comedy.
Yea, it would never be a hit. But it did premiere fine for a summer show, and if it was executed well it could of at least kept 6 million viewers interested in it. Might still be canceled.
quote:
Since Swingtown was mentioned, I'll use it as an example. Even if Swingtown was brilliant in execution, which to be fair to CBS is wasn't, it would still fail. There isn't an established audience that watches CBS regularly to appeal to.
Posts: 1543 | Location: NY | Registered: 17 November 2006
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Star Trek did overcome that hurdle, but the over dilution and mis handling of the franchise by Rick Berman, after the death of Gene R., brought the franchise down to just a shadow of its former self.
There were 2 main preoblems with Enterprise: 1. The show was set earlier in time than other versions of Star Trek. 2. the show was full of time travel.
Problem #1 could easily be overcome if the show had simply attempted to be more cerebral and dealt with the expansion of humanity into the universe of characters. We will see if the new movie can overcome this same problem. Problem #2 is fatal and will no doubt plague any future Star Trek versions as well since Sci-Fi seems so enamored with the topic of time travel. Heroes, LOST, Terminator: SCC, Journeyman, etc... If CBS ever attempts another Star Trek franchise, they need to make a NO TIME TRAVEL pact so the show doesn't get trapped in a pile of...
Time travel episodes and movies have usually been the more popular format of the series.
The problem with the 3 series after TNG was that.....
1) The writing went from an ensamble format to individual/smal group episodes. TNG had many, many episodes that involved the whole crew working together on the main plot line. Each series became worse at this as time progressed.
2) Berman wanted conflict between characters yet the basis of the Starfleet environment was peace and unity. His idea of STar Trek was close to a 180 than that of Rodenberry's.
Enterprise failed because it mainly focused on 3 characters and didnt deliver in the telling of the early days of Starfleet.
It looks to me that The Mole had a lot of casual viewers from the Bachelorette leadin. Once that show ended, so did those viewers watching The Mole.
quote:
Originally posted by sportsfanprisonbreaksarahconnor: This week's thoughts from me: -Why the hell did the mole go down to a series low in viewers and demo? Were that many people Alex fans? Why did the drop go so low? Did people forget it was on or was their a special or rememberable episode of something else airing last night? -Why Abc hasn't tried even once moving the mole to the 8pm or 9pm hour yet this season is behind me and a bunch of crap. Couldn't do any worse than they are now and could only do better.
As someone who is a big sci-fi fan and watched (and mostly enjoyed) all the previous Trek series, I have to say that I don't think that time travel was the problem. In fact, I'm generally a fan of time travel.
I lay the disaster that was Enterprise on the most boring cast of characters to even inhabit one show at the same time. The acting wasn't anything to write home about either. The most interesting character was a Beagle!
I gave up after about a dozen episodes, when I realized that the only episode that I had found engaging, had been the one that barely featured the regular cast at all.
The show also had possibly the worst theme song in the history of television. Way to alienate your audience before the opening credits have even run.
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic:
quote:
Originally posted by Obveeus:
quote:
Originally posted by TV-aholic: Star Trek did overcome that hurdle, but the over dilution and mis handling of the franchise by Rick Berman, after the death of Gene R., brought the franchise down to just a shadow of its former self.
There were 2 main preoblems with Enterprise: 1. The show was set earlier in time than other versions of Star Trek. 2. the show was full of time travel.
Problem #1 could easily be overcome if the show had simply attempted to be more cerebral and dealt with the expansion of humanity into the universe of characters. We will see if the new movie can overcome this same problem. Problem #2 is fatal and will no doubt plague any future Star Trek versions as well since Sci-Fi seems so enamored with the topic of time travel. Heroes, LOST, Terminator: SCC, Journeyman, etc... If CBS ever attempts another Star Trek franchise, they need to make a NO TIME TRAVEL pact so the show doesn't get trapped in a pile of...
Time travel episodes and movies have usually been the more popular format of the series.
The problem with the 3 series after TNG was that.....
1) The writing went from an ensamble format to individual/smal group episodes. TNG had many, many episodes that involved the whole crew working together on the main plot line. Each series became worse at this as time progressed.
2) Berman wanted conflict between characters yet the basis of the Starfleet environment was peace and unity. His idea of STar Trek was close to a 180 than that of Rodenberry's.
Enterprise failed because it mainly focused on 3 characters and didnt deliver in the telling of the early days of Starfleet.
I did not realize it was only the second run. I stand corrected. However that illustrates that many others may also be thinking these eps are ones that were run over and over again during the strike and did not bother to tune in. answered your own question...the majority of people are convinced that this was yet another reapeat just as I was...and did not tune in.
Or, like myself, they just don't feel like watching another generic sitcom that reminds them of the same ones they've seen for the last 40 years... over and over again.
Do you mean the crappy style of comedy? I'm not sure how much of an audience FOX thought there was for that.
Obviously a lot since they renewed it for 3 years hoping it would catch on. It's just not the type of comedy that appeals to a large audience. People like things they don't have to follow week to week and pay 95+% attention to... AD wasn't crappy. It was just different. People aren't used to that.
FOX Prevails in A18-49 for 2008 July Sweep; Surging CBS First in Viewers, Households & Now Third in A18-49 Updated to Incorporate Weekend & Monday Final Numbers
With a tie in A18-49 with CBS last night, FOX maintained its hold on first in A18-49 where it averages a 2.0 in A18-49, followed by NBC in second with 1.6, CBS and ABC tied third with 1.5 (though ABC is verging on 1.4), The CW fifth with 0.6, and MyNetworkTV last with a 0.3 average. Year-over-year, all the six networks are showing A18-49 declines from last July, and overall, A18-49 is down 10% across the six nets from last July. The largest year-over-year declines are being experienced by The CW (down 19%), CBS (down 13%) and MyNetworkTV (down 15%).
After 26 nights, CBS holds on to its customary lead in households and viewership, with FOX in second, NBC third, ABC fourth, CW fifth and MNT is last.
In households, which overall are down by 4% from last July, ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and MyNetworkTV are all down between 1% to 4% from the same as last summer, while The CW is having a rough summer in households where its numbers have fallen off the most by 21%.
In viewers, only FOX is up by 1% from last year, while CBS is even when compared to last years July Sweep. NBC, MyNetworkTV and ABC are down by just 1% from last year. Overall viewership is down 2% to last July (down 420,000 viewers on average). The biggest year-over-year decline in viewership is being experienced by the repeat-heavy The CW which is down 20% year-over-year (a loss of 403,000 viewers on average).
nights nights
demo web demo demo % won won
Rank web 2008 2007 chg 2008 2007
1 FOX 2.00 2.21 -9% 17 18.5
2 NBC 1.57 1.75 -10% 3 3
3 CBS 1.50 1.74 -13% 2 1
4 ABC 1.45 1.50 -3% 2
5 CW 0.59 0.73 -19% 2 3.5
6 MNT 0.33 0.39 -15%
total 7.45 8.31 -10% 26 26
nights nights
HH web HH HH HH won won
rank web 2008 2007 chg 2008 2007
1 CBS 4.2 4.3 -2% 12 13.5
2 FOX 3.6 3.6 -1% 7.5 7
3 NBC 3.5 3.6 -3% 5.5 5.5
4 ABC 3.0 3.1 -4% 1
5 CW 1.0 1.3 -21%
6 MNT 0.7 0.7 -2%
total 16.1 16.7 -4% 26 26
nights nights
viewers web viewers viewers viewers won won
rank web 2008 2007 chg 2008 2007
1 CBS 6.318 6.320 0% 10 8.5
2 FOX 5.734 5.694 1% 11 11
3 NBC 5.414 5.458 -1% 4 5.5
4 ABC 4.528 4.570 -1% 1 1
5 CW 1.581 1.984 -20%
6 MNT 0.976 0.987 -1%
total 24.55 25.013 -2% 26 26
The data for this year as well as last years comparative numbers are based upon final Nielsen numbers.
Nota Bene. This year's Sweep includes the low-HUT Fourth of July whereas last year's Sweep started on July 5th and did not include the Fourth of July.
Had CBS started a little earlier with Big Brother, they probably would have pulled out 2nd in 18-49. As long as those 2 demo ratings remain well above CBS' summer average, I see the show staying on the air.
Congratulations to mushu_jj for winning the 74th PIFC game. This is his 4th ever PIFC game win and his first for the 2008 Winter/Spring PIFC Cup Season.
tvfan300 did continue to build on his consecutive game points streak, now at 69 games, pending the Feb. Sweeps game.
Check out the PIFC Cup Web site for all the current standings, stats and more. The PIFC will return for the 2008 Fall Season, in September. Also, dont forget about the Great game... The Daily Game
Top 5 Players for the 2008 Winter/Spring PIFC Cup Season
