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Originally posted by pisher:
Man, even MORE so after looking at this chart. Week after week, down down DOWN--until it has a massive and somewhat compatible lead-in--and can barely hang onto a little more than half of it.

Yes, who could forget October? A more innocent time. Back then, only the numbers mattered. (To you.)

Interestingly, the much-maligned second half hour is STILL up over 50% from last week's total, and still up over every airing since week 3. Shouldn't more people have stopped tuning out from the lead-in and turned over to the "real competition" at that point? I'd think so, if the show was Fading Fast.

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Yes, who could forget October? A more innocent time. Back then, only the numbers mattered. (To you.)

Right, only nerds with no life talk about ratings numbers--now you were saying?

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Interestingly, the much-maligned second half hour is STILL up over 50% from last week's total, and still up over every airing since week 3.

Contrary to what Milhaus on The Simpsons said, not all nerds are smart.

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Shouldn't more people have stopped tuning out from the lead-in and turned over to the "real competition" at that point? I'd think so, if the show was Fading Fast.

Well, maybe you should set up your OWN ratings forum, where you won't have to deal with ignorant trolls like Marc Berman and their opinionated uninformed rantings. That hater. He had to eat his words about Veronica Mars last year. The positive words he typed early in the last season, I mean.

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Originally posted by TV-aholic:

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Originally posted by mushu_jj:

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Originally posted by TV-aholic:

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Second was ABC’s Dirty Sexy Money at a below-average 7.15 million viewers and a 2.6/ 7 in the demo,

I wonder if this low number is also because of the Thanksgiving Holiday?

Nope. It grew from last week and its lead in was lower than the average this season. I'd say it's done okay. Not great but not Big Shots bad. Creatively its doing great. That's all I ask for. And yes, I just took a page from the vlis book of spin. Gotta do what I gotta do.

Here are Big Shots numbers for the year

Week                Viewers            Demo
----------------------------------------------
09/27/07            11.10 M            4.5
10/04/07             8.23 M            3.6 
10/11/07             8.54 M            3.6 
10/18/07             7.64 M            3.0
10/25/07             7.38 M            3.0
11/01/07             7.32 M            3.1
11/08/07             6.96 M            2.9

DSM is not only in the same neighborhood, but may even live Next Door to BS.

Now this is vlis-worthy spin! Taking things completely out of context. If DSM were in Big Shots slot and retained 70% of the lead in like it is now, it would be the best thing to air after Greys yet.

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Originally posted by mushu_jj:
Now this is vlis-worthy spin! Taking things completely out of context. If DSM were in Big Shots slot and retained 70% of the lead in like it is now, it would be the best thing to air after Greys yet.

But if you look at each shows competition, DSM has it a little easier.

CSI-NY is a tick lower than WAT and ER is still about 30% bigger than Life.

But, when it comes down to it, they draw about the same number of viewers, with BS having the edge in the demo.

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Originally posted by TravisYanan:
I think the second half-hour says it all, not the hour average. We'll know in two weeks when PD airs the last episode it has in the can.

Pushing Daisies set up a good 'cliffhanger to draw people back in two weeks.
1. The taffy girl from Saturday Night Live somehow just killed a guy that should have been in prison.
2. Chuck just found out her boyfriend killed her father.
3. Olive just figured out an alternative love interest.
That second 'cliffhanger' should get all the fans of the show very interested in the next episode.

One thing that Pushing Daisies has going for it that most shows do not: the long term plot keeps moving forward.

The Nielsen numbers for last night reveal several things:
1. The half hour tuneout is bad. It really does show that a lot of people just don't 'get the show', for whatever reason. ABC has to be concerned about that and question how bad a season #2 numbers will get.
2. The dropoff from the lead-in was big, but given the special one time only nature of the lead-in, it can't be 'unexpected. ABC won't care about the dropoff from the lead-in last night.
3. The big increase in viewers for Pushing Daisies last night shows that this show could do much better with a lead-in than having to be a 'self starter'. ABC will look better upon Pushing Daisies for being the lead-off show on Wednesday and still finding an audience.

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I just realized something. You're laughing at PD losing so much of it's

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lead in, eh? It's

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lead in was The Grinch. Is The Grinch really something you would consider a compatible lead in for PD?

In that The Grinch is funny, meaningful, and enduring, no. But in the sense that it's a fanciful fable with an offscreen narrator, yeah, I kinda do, and so did ABC. Their mistake. Good point.

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Half the people watching the Grinch probably had to go to bed as soon as it was over.

I hope they at least gave you supper first.


I feel a song coming on--maestro, if you please--

you're a mean one
mr. pish!
you're such a--poopy--pants!
you spit on the graves of shows we love
while doing The Snoopy Dance!
mr. pi-ISH!

Stop feeding the Pushing Daisies characters to that--piesick crocodileeeeeee!!!!

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Originally posted by mushu_jj:
Now this is vlis-worthy spin! Taking things completely out of context. If DSM were in Big Shots slot and retained 70% of the lead in like it is now, it would be the best thing to air after Greys yet.

If you are going to look at DSM's retention, you should look at its retention compared with the second half hour of Pushing Daisies.

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Pushing Daisies set up a good 'cliffhanger to draw people back in two weeks.
1. The taffy girl from Saturday Night Live somehow just killed a guy that should have been in prison.
2. Chuck just found out her boyfriend killed her father.
3. Olive just figured out an alternative love interest.
That second 'cliffhanger' should get all the fans of the show very interested in the next episode.

Oh man, I have to wait two weeks to see the ratings for that? Bummer, man.

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One thing that Pushing Daisies has going for it that most shows do not: the long term plot keeps moving forward.

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The Nielsen numbers for last night reveal several things:
1. The half hour tuneout is bad. It really does show that a lot of people just don't 'get the show', for whatever reason. ABC has to be concerned about that and question how bad a season #2 numbers will get.
2. The dropoff from the lead-in was big, but given the special one time only nature of the lead-in, it can't be 'unexpected. ABC won't care about the dropoff from the lead-in last night.
3. The big increase in viewers for Pushing Daisies last night shows that this show could do much better with a lead-in than having to be a 'self starter'. ABC will look better upon Pushing Daisies for being the lead-off show on Wednesday and still finding an audience.

ABC is right now thinking about stuffing PD on a sled, and dumping it off a mountain.

And it just so happens I have a dog named Max.

Seriously, I do. I'm ordering some antlers for him post-haste.

With regards to animated series:

Shrek did fantastic this year, but I don't see how it can repeat well. It was not good. The problem was that it wasn't about 'Christmas', it was about 'Shrek'.

If ABC (or any other network) wants to make a holiday special that will endure, they need to make more it about the holiday and less about the franchise.

I'd love to see a Ratatouille Christmas special, but the movie seemed a bit lost on the American audience.

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I'd love to see a Ratatouille Christmas special, but the movie seemed a bit lost on the American audience.

It grossed over 200 million dollars here, and the DVD is outselling Spider-man 3, but it's not like I really WANT there to be a holiday special. I was KIDDING.

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Originally posted by pisher:
Right, only nerds with no life talk about ratings numbers--now you were saying?

This was a statement on raw numbers vs. context, not a personal attack. The implication was that you paid attention only to raw numbers before, when things like the World Series and Halloween and Thanksgiving were in the mix. Now that PD is up week-to-week, you are paying attention only to context. I'm sorry I needed to explain all of that. It'd have been so much easier if it was a real personal attack, right?

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Contrary to what Milhaus on The Simpsons said, not all nerds are smart.

Ouch.

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Well, maybe you should set up your OWN ratings forum, where you won't have to deal with ignorant trolls like Marc Berman and their opinionated uninformed rantings. That hater. He had to eat his words about Veronica Mars last year. The positive words he typed early in the last season, I mean.

I disagree with this particular label for this particular week, and I believe that is allowed on this forum. I didn't call him a troll or attack him personally. (This is where you say that you can't tell any of us apart.)

A 7.2 for "Shrek" in the money demo? Amazing! More proof that animation isn't just for kids.

Here are those luck players that actually chose "Shrek The Halls" in the PI Feedback Challenge" (I thought I picked it in game 10. Must have talked myself out of it )

Game #7 - himymfan22

Game #9 - himymfan22

Game #10 - NYHunter, Mork

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This was a statement on raw numbers vs. context, not a personal attack.

Right, because you NEVER do that. Only people you disagree with do that.

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The implication was that you paid attention only to raw numbers before, when things like the World Series and Halloween and Thanksgiving were in the mix.

Because that's all there was to pay attention to. People kept saying "PD could do really great with a strong lead-in", and then it got one, and it didn't even do as well as the second episode, and held onto slightly over half the audience Mr. Grinch so generously handed it.

And honestly, this would happen with any strong lead-in they gave PD. I always said this would happen, and now it has, and I'm sure we all admire your gracious admission of that fact.

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I disagree with this particular label for this particular week, and I believe that is allowed on this forum.

Okay, but obviously what I post here is also allowed on this forum. So maybe you're just taking my criticisms of the show a bit too personally, and things spiral out of control from there. Just accept that most people who know anything about ratings (including the huge number of people who know vastly more than me) would say this was a very poor performance.

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I didn't call him a troll or attack him personally.

You wouldn't still be posting here if you had. So why even bring that up?

Point is, I haven't really said anything more than what Marc has said. I may have said it differently, but that's because you fangeeks keep insisting on making this personal. It's not personal for me. It's not rocket science, either. It's been obvious for a while now that PD's audience (as opposed to online fans), is not all that attached to it.

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(This is where you say that you can't tell any of us apart.)

No it isn't.

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Animated Shrek the Halls debuted on ABC with an impressive (and dominant) 21.06 million viewers and a 7.2 rating/20 share among adults 18-49 8 p.m.

WOW.

But PD totally squandered the lead-in.

ABC's scheduling makes no sense to me. It will be off next week when PP and DSM are new and then air on the 12th when both shows are repeats?!

Goodbye Bionic Woman. Life should get a bump out of Heroes and DOND next week.