Originally posted by pisher: And you really think Marc forgot about the holidays when he said PD was fading fast? Why do you keep complaining about what I say? Nobody outside this forum is paying attention to me. Or you. Lots of them pay attention to Marc.
Because Marc has better things to do than spam his own forum like we do.
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Yes wait--NO show is doing well in that timeslot this season. PD should have stuck with its own kind, if it wanted to keep that streak alive. And now it's DEAD.
To paraphrase you: And this is what happens folks, when people come to a ratings discussion thread EXCLUSIVELY to bash shows they don't like or don't even watch, neither knowing nor caring how ratings actually work.
Posts: 590 | Location: NYC | Registered: 02 November 2007
Because Marc has better things to do than spam his own forum like we do.
Finally you're talking sense--because you said 'we'.
Now just take the final step to sanity--admit that PD's ratings for this week are bad news for the show. It should have done a lot better. Marc wouldn't be writing what he did without good reason. And no matter what you think of me (or me of you), neither would I.
I've been on this forum since before PD was greenlit. Can you say the same?
Originally posted by mushu_jj: Nice increases for Top Model. Despite and increase for Gossip Girl, it was probably more due to a higher lead in than anything else.
I wouldn't say that America's Next Top Model increased. What the ratings show is simply proof that the Thanksgiving holiday really effected some shows negatively last week.
Gossip Girl isn't doing anything 'amazing' ratingswise, but it is slowly creeping upward. At this point, it is in a better ratings position than Reaper (even if that advantage is about lead-in, not the actual show's interest). Gossip Girl is one of those shows that could really be hurt by the writer's strike. It will be hard for a young show to build/maintain the audience momentum with an extended break.
Originally posted by pisher: So that would also mean Marc's does as well. Okay, that's your opinion. Based on many years of experience in evaluating show ratings in a professional and objective manner, I'm sure.
I don't usually think he has a blind spot. I usually agree when he keeps PD off the winner's list despite it winning the timeslot. But I think he's wrong today. He does have more experience than me, but I still think he's wrong.
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Has there ever been a week you didn't think it SHOULD have done better?
Not really. My point is that it isn't the flop worthy of immediate cancellation that you seem to think it is. It's a decent performer, and a prestige project, and that's good enough to keep around.
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Yes, but in this context, that SUCKS. And it's all about context, or lots of shows with better ratings than PD has ever gotten would never have been canceled.
I don't think it's that bad. Women's Murder Club declined in viewers when it moved from low-HUT Friday to post-Grey's. I don't think a show that's been around for a couple months should be suddenly expected to have an enormous hike because of a special airing. If you look at the 65% increase without context, that's obviously spinning it in the most positive way possible, and not a perfectly clear picture - much of that hike is from it not being Thanksgiving, and much of it is the lead-in. I just don't think the context is enough to turn a two-thirds increase into "Fading Fast," though.
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What makes Marc's report so much more interesting than those is that he shares his experience from years of comparing the ratings of various shows. His winners, losers, and special mentions are personal (and informed) opinions, and shared by most people in his business, but most of those people don't choose to share their opinions with us on a regular basis.
I agree with all of this.
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You do get he has no axe to grind with PD, right? He's just judging its performance like he would any other show. He's going out of his way to be nice, really.
And I disagree with his judgment this week, whether it's biased or not. I'm not saying he's a biased journalist. I'm saying he's an incorrect journalist.
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Feel free to point me to one article about last night's ratings that says PD did really well, and that its ratings performance was a positive for its future survival.
I doubt there is one. I don't think anybody is saying it did "really well." I just think the number is not an alarming one, and is not by any stretch "Fading Fast."
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I was talking about how Marc is saying the same things I've been saying for weeks. So why freak when I say what is obvious to a professional journalist who specializes in TV ratings? Why not just accept that my opinions on PD's ratings performance are actually pretty mainstream, and that the show's chances of longterm survival don't look very rosy at the moment?
I still disagree with Marc, and flashing his credentials at me another time isn't going to make me start agreeing. Do you think Marc created PIFeedback just so that people could say, "Bravo, Marc! Another stellar ratings report!" I'm going to go so far as to say that he wanted some disagreement. I'm not a "He's smarter, so he must be right" kind of guy. I look at the numbers and decide if I agree - and I usually do. Not here.
And for the record, I do like PD, but I don't love it. Haven't even seen last night's. The show I really like on Wednesday is Life, and I don't even want to touch those ratings.
More like the massive drop from its lead-in, and what Marc himself describes as a "disturbing" drop in the second half hour.
So before I log on I am able to see Pisher's comments even though he's blocked once I log on. Just had to make a comment about this.
It's lead in was a Christmas special ... do you really think that everybody who watches it is going to watch PD and everybody that watches PD is going to watch it???
I certainly didn't watch "Shrek The Halls", but I did watch "PD". You can't (well you can, but it doesn't make sense to) really make a comparison like that considering its lead-in is only on this one week and that its a Christmas special and probably just about every kid on the planet (well the U.S. anyways) will be watching it.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shannon,
Originally posted by pisher: Now just take the final step to sanity--admit that PD's ratings for this week are bad news for the show. It should have done a lot better. Marc wouldn't be writing what he did without good reason. And no matter what you think of me (or me of you), neither would I.
Well I don't know what you call "bad news". It shows that the show will probably never become a huge hit, and no one thought so by now. But is it "bad news" as in, imminent death like you claim? Clearly not.
Look at this way, you keep mentioning the huge lead-in yesterday, but PD got in the top5 new shows this season with no lead-in at all. SW had DWTS every week, BS had GA and faded fast (ABC would be dancing if BS was at 10+ millions). PD got very decent ratings on its own.
Posts: 590 | Location: NYC | Registered: 02 November 2007
Originally posted by TV-aholic: But for those of us who may have chosen it on at least 1 Game of the PI Feedback Challenge game, we will be nicely rewarded.
Good thing I picked it multiple times.
Posts: 1712 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 24 March 2007
Originally posted by Show: What is there for PD fans to spin? It got the highest ratings it has ever had in a long time, and even after the drop, the ratings were still better than they have been for weeks. Considering that it was not a Christmas Episode, I think it did quite nicely.
That's not spin.
Posts: 1712 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 24 March 2007
I don't usually think he has a blind spot. I usually agree when he keeps PD off the winner's list despite it winning the timeslot. But I think he's wrong today. He does have more experience than me, but I still think he's wrong.
Okay. Judging by responses so far, most people here agree with Marc. But you have a right to be a crackpot fringedweller, if that's what you like.
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Not really. My point is that it isn't the flop worthy of immediate cancellation that you seem to think it is.
No, you misunderstand. ABC made a terrible mistake greenlighting this show, and are increasingly aware of that, but I'm not at all surprised they picked it up for a full season, since the reviews were (undeservedly) good, and the premiere was reasonably well-sampled.
I think PD is a horrible show, getting mediocre ratings, that has notoriously large production budgets, and is constantly falling behind schedule (which is why the next ep will be the last for quite time time). I don't think it will be canceled for being bad, but I do think it will be canceled for failing to properly capitalize on all the many advantages it has received, most particularly a very easy timeslot--an advantage it won't keep long, if ABC keeps it around. Capish?
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It's a decent performer, and a prestige project, and that's good enough to keep around.
Okay. Me and the ratings expert disagree.
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I don't think it's that bad. Women's Murder Club declined in viewers when it moved from low-HUT Friday to post-Grey's.
I really don't know why you think it's relevant to bring up a Friday show that costs less to produce, and is up against tougher competition.
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And I disagree with his judgment this week, whether it's biased or not. I'm not saying he's a biased journalist. I'm saying he's an incorrect journalist.
Yes, but you don't have any real arguments to back this up. Marc's are obvious--indeed, commonplace. A show that drops almost 50% from its lead-in is having major problems. A show that drops week after week is having major problems. A show that has to hide behind Halloween and Thanksgiving is just--sad.
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I doubt there is one. I don't think anybody is saying it did "really well." I just think the number is not an alarming one, and is not by any stretch "Fading Fast."
Okay, you've made that point. Not well, but you've made it.
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I still disagree with Marc,
Have you considered getting that monogrammed on your chest or something?
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and flashing his credentials at me another time isn't going to make me start agreeing.
I'm not trying to get you to agree. I understand your mind is closed, and nothing will change it, least of all the facts. I'm just trying to make you look petty and ill-informed. And so far it's going really well.
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Do you think Marc created PIFeedback just so that people could say, "Bravo, Marc! Another stellar ratings report!"
Marc has been really tolerant of differing opinions here. No question. But over and over, he's shown that it's better to evaluate a show's ratings on the ratings themselves, not whether or not you think the show ought to stay on the air. I know people think I do that, but I don't. There are a lot of shows I WISH were going to get canceled that will be on long after PD (and some shows I do like) are done and forgotten.
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And for the record, I do like PD, but I don't love it.
So before I log on I am able to see Pisher's comments even though he's blocked once I log on. Just had to make a comment about this.
A likely story. You read all my posts.
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It's lead in
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was a Christmas special ... do you really think that everybody who watches it is going to watch PD and everybody that watches PD is going to watch it???
I kind of think ABC--and more than a few PD fans who post here--thought it was going to keep more than slightly over half that audience. Would you rather it hadn't aired at all? I bet ABC now wishes they'd kept PP on.
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I certainly didn't watch "Shrek The Halls", but I did watch "PD".
I watched two season three eps of The Wire OnDemand. Since we're not talking about you or me but about the ratings, why is any of that relevant?
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You can't (well you can, but it doesn't make sense to) really make a comparison like that considering its only on this one week and that its a Christmas special and probably just about every kid on the planet (well the U.S. anyways) will be watching it.
You do realize there are over 300 million people in the U.S., right? MOST people don't even watch American Idol.
Stick PD back in its original timeslot, give it just about any halfway successful scripted show as competition, and it would be lucky to have four million viewers and a 1.5 in the demo after a very short time. So enjoy the bubble while it lasts, kiddo.
Marc has been really tolerant of differing opinions here. No question. But over and over, he's shown that it's better to evaluate a show's ratings on the ratings themselves, not whether or not you think the show ought to stay on the air. I know people think I do that, but I don't. There are a lot of shows I WISH were going to get canceled that will be on long after PD (and some shows I do like) are done and forgotten.
Marc has been tolerant of differing opinions? What are you talking about? He has taken no part in the discussions on this forum since the first couple of months it was started. I don't really think he cares about anyones opinions. Not that he should or needs to.
Marc provides his ratings report daily. And he has built up a large base of people to the forum who he could promote his webcasts to.
Okay, Marc, so I have to ask ... why do you think that PD is fading fast and GG and DSM are losers when they all increased in the ratings this week?
I know its your opinion and all and you're entitled to that and its not that I'm saying you got it wrong, but I'm just curious as to what your reasons are for saying that.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shannon,
Originally posted by pisher: Stick PD back in its original timeslot, give it just about any halfway successful scripted show as competition, and it would be lucky to have four million viewers and a 1.5 in the demo after a very short time. So enjoy the bubble while it lasts, kiddo.
I understand now, you are talking about imaginary bad ratings that PD could have. It makes perfect sense now, ABC should axe this show because of its imaginary competition in the time slot, and its catastrophic imaginary ratings.
Posts: 590 | Location: NYC | Registered: 02 November 2007
