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quote: Originally posted by dumont:
The best time to improve your mix of affiliates is on the way up, and the time when networks are at their most vulnerable is when they're on the way down.
Have they found a new affiliate in SF to take over for the station that is leaving them or will they lose the market altogether? One thing about affiliates is that it usually is part of a cascade effect. One station in a maket changes affiliations and it cascades to a second or third station in that same market also changing. If MNTV starts trying to upgrade their affiliates, I think the first thing they need to do is to try and do what CW did: gain affiliates that will actually show the programming at the time it is aired. So, they need to stay away from local stations that have obtrusive sports contracts. |
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No final rating for thursday are available yet ?
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Here ya go, Obveeus, since my word is not good enough
Week of February 3-9, 2003
9.5 Smallville WB Tue 9
8.8 7th Heaven WB Mon 8
6.7 Gilmore Girls WB Tue 8
6.0 Everwood WB Mon 9
5.2 Reba WB Fri 9
4.6 Charmed WB Sun 8
3.7 What I Like About WB Fri 8
3.6 Dawsons Creek WB Wed 8
3.5 Greetings From Tucso WB Fri 9:30
3.5 Sabrina WB Fri 8:30
3.4 Angel WB Wed 9
3.3 High School Reunion WB Sun 9
2.6 The Surreal Life WB Thur 9
2.6R Gilmore Girls: Beg WB Sun 7
2.2 The Jamie Kennedy Ex WB Thur 9:30
1.7R High School Reunion WB Thur 8
5.4 WWE Smackdown! UPN Thur 8
4.5 Enterprise UPN Wed 8
4.1 Buffy The Vampire UPN Tue 8
4.1 One On One UPN Mon 8:30
4.0 Girlfriends UPN Mon 9
3.4 The Parkers UPN Mon 8
3.4 Half & Half UPN Mon 9:30
2.7 The Twilight Zone UPN Wed 9
2.7R Movie: Murcury Risin UPN Fri 8
2.4R One On One UPN Tue 9:30
2.2 Abby UPN Tue 9
Now lets do a comparison to mid November, 2007.
UPN/WB Monday to CW: 5.6 vs 2.2 (-61%)
UPN/WB Tuesday to CW: 5.6 vs 2.5 (-55%)
UPN/WB Wednes to CW: 3.6 vs 4.1 (+14%)
UPN/WB Thursda to CW: 3.7 vs 3.7 (---)
UPN/WB Friday to CW: 3.4 vs 4.7 (+38%)
WB Sunday to CW: 3.5 vs 1.3 (-63%)
Top CW series 11/12/07 - 11/18/07
AMERICA'S TOP MODEL-3 5340
FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN 4690
SMALLVILLE 4510
GOSSIP GIRL 2950
SUPERNATURAL 2880
GAME, THE 2550
BEAUTY AND THE GEEK-2 2480
REAPER 2460
EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS 2320
GIRLFRIENDS 2170
ALIENS IN AMERICA 1990
AMERICA'S TOP MODEL-3-ENC 1560
LIFE IS WILD 1370
ALIENS IN AMERICA-SUN 1130
CW NOW 900
Overall network averages for November 12-18,2007 compared to February 3-9, 2003:
2003 2008
CBS: 13.3 11.9 -10%
NBC 12.4 8.3 -33
ABC 11.8 10.4 -11
Fox 10.6 8.6 -19
WB/U 4.2 2.9 -31
NBC has lost more than the CW, but it started from a much higher place. The drops for both are concerning. Fox's losses are cyclical based on the hot reality show of the moment (then it was Joe Millionaire). ABC actually posted a big gain if you take out the one-time 2003 ratings for that 20/20 Michael Jackson special (+28%)
That week in February, the UPN and WB had 11 series over 4 million viewers. The CW had 3. And this was before ANTM came into play.
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quote: Originally posted by Obveeus: quote: Originally posted by dumont:
The best time to improve your mix of affiliates is on the way up, and the time when networks are at their most vulnerable is when they're on the way down.
Have they found a new affiliate in SF to take over for the station that is leaving them or will they lose the market altogether? One thing about affiliates is that it usually is part of a cascade effect. One station in a maket changes affiliations and it cascades to a second or third station in that same market also changing. If MNTV starts trying to upgrade their affiliates, I think the first thing they need to do is to try and do what CW did: gain affiliates that will actually show the programming at the time it is aired. So, they need to stay away from local stations that have obtrusive sports contracts.
That was a huge problem for the UPN. Even ANTM was not safe from being randomly preempted. |
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DB108, wouldn't it make more sense to use the 2005-2006 season numbers, which was the last season the WB and UPN were operational? It would just seem more accurate than going back 2 or 3 years earlier.
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quote: Originally posted by DB108:
Here ya go, Obveeus, since my word is not good enough
I'm not doubting your word, I'm doubting your claim because you haven't presented anything to support your claim. Again, with this attempt, you provide data for one isolated week. Read what I originally wrote: Care to present data to support your theory that this is 'pathetic' rather than representative of broadcast television in general? Show the data for each network's (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, WB, UPN, CW, MNTV) season long average I am not disputing at all that CW has lower ratings now than WB had at some point prior. What I was asking you to do is think about the fact that all of network TV is in decline and ratings are lower across the board than they were 5 or 10 years ago. Your claim of patheticness is very similar to the claim people make that ER has pathetic ratings while completely ignoring that the rest of NBC Thursday is down Sharply from what it was a decade ago as well AND while completely ignoring thqat ER's 'pathietic' ratings are still average (or above average) for the network as a whole. You need to look at things in context. WB and UPN were at the bottom. CW and MNTV are at the bottom. Is the gap really widening or is pretty much everything dropping? |
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No final rating for thursday are available yet ?(2)  |
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quote: Originally posted by channelserf:
DB108, wouldn't it make more sense to use the 2005-2006 season numbers, which was the last season the WB and UPN were operational? It would just seem more accurate than going back 2 or 3 years earlier.
If one looks to the drop-offs of the 05-06 season (and goes back further to the 00-01 season, the largest dropoffs on all key measures have been experienced by the mini-networks, with the largest drop-off being experienced by MyNetworkTV, which is in a re-build after almost falling off the map last season. And FOX is the only network showing stronger season-to-date numbers this season vs. 7 years ago, 2 years ago and 1 year ago.
Season: WB/UPN WB/UPN CW/MNT CW/MNT 2007/08 #'s Up(+)/Down(-)
From: 09/00 09/05 09/06 09/07 +/- +/- +/-
To: 03/01 03/06 03/07 03/08 00/01 05/06 06/07
Households
ABC 8.6 7.3 6.4 6.0 -30% -18% -6%
CBS 8.6 8.2 8.1 6.7 -22% -18% -17%
FOX 6.4 5.9 6.2 6.8 6% 15% 10%
NBC 8.2 6.5 6.1 5.4 -34% -17% -11%
WB/CW 2.6 2.2 2.1 1.7 -35% -23% -19%
UPN/MNT 2.5 2.1 0.6 0.8 -68% -62% 33%
PAX/ion 0.9 0.4 0.4 0.4 -56% 0% 0%
37.8 32.6 29.9 27.8 -26% -15% -7%
Viewers
ABC 12,970 11,510 9,940 9,240 -29% -20% -7%
CBS 12,650 12,690 12,940 10,540 -17% -17% -19%
FOX 9,970 9,600 10,090 11,510 15% 20% 14%
NBC 12,040 10,020 9,520 8,550 -29% -15% -10%
WB/CW 3,900 3,250 3,270 2,600 -33% -20% -20%
UPN/MNT 3,880 3,210 849 1,130 -71% -65% 33%
PAX/ion 1,350 510 640 550 -59% 8% -14%
56,760 50,790 47,249 44,120 -22% -13% -7%
A18-49
ABC 4.6 4.2 3.5 3.1 -33% -26% -11%
CBS 4.0 3.9 3.9 3.0 -25% -23% -23%
FOX 4.6 3.9 3.9 4.4 -4% 13% 13%
NBC 4.9 3.4 3.4 3.0 -39% -12% -12%
WB/CW 1.7 1.4 1.3 1.0 -41% -29% -23%
UPN/MNT 1.6 1.3 0.3 0.4 -75% -69% 38%
PAX/ion 0.4 0.1 0.1 0.1 -75% 0% 0%
21.8 18.2 16.4 15.0 -31% -18% -8%
Source: Nielsen Media One other interesting year-over-year pattern is that the largest fall-off is being felt within DVR-embracing A18-49 audience segment. |
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quote: Originally posted by DB108:
Here ya go, Obveeus, since my word is not good enough
Week of February 3-9, 2003
9.5 Smallville WB Tue 9
8.8 7th Heaven WB Mon 8
6.7 Gilmore Girls WB Tue 8
6.0 Everwood WB Mon 9
5.2 Reba WB Fri 9
4.6 Charmed WB Sun 8
3.7 What I Like About WB Fri 8
3.6 Dawsons Creek WB Wed 8
3.5 Greetings From Tucso WB Fri 9:30
3.5 Sabrina WB Fri 8:30
3.4 Angel WB Wed 9
3.3 High School Reunion WB Sun 9
2.6 The Surreal Life WB Thur 9
2.6R Gilmore Girls: Beg WB Sun 7
2.2 The Jamie Kennedy Ex WB Thur 9:30
1.7R High School Reunion WB Thur 8
5.4 WWE Smackdown! UPN Thur 8
4.5 Enterprise UPN Wed 8
4.1 Buffy The Vampire UPN Tue 8
4.1 One On One UPN Mon 8:30
4.0 Girlfriends UPN Mon 9
3.4 The Parkers UPN Mon 8
3.4 Half & Half UPN Mon 9:30
2.7 The Twilight Zone UPN Wed 9
2.7R Movie: Murcury Risin UPN Fri 8
2.4R One On One UPN Tue 9:30
2.2 Abby UPN Tue 9
Now lets do a comparison to mid November, 2007.
UPN/WB Monday to CW: 5.6 vs 2.2 (-61%)
UPN/WB Tuesday to CW: 5.6 vs 2.5 (-55%)
UPN/WB Wednes to CW: 3.6 vs 4.1 (+14%)
UPN/WB Thursda to CW: 3.7 vs 3.7 (---)
UPN/WB Friday to CW: 3.4 vs 4.7 (+38%)
WB Sunday to CW: 3.5 vs 1.3 (-63%)
Top CW series 11/12/07 - 11/18/07
AMERICA'S TOP MODEL-3 5340
FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN 4690
SMALLVILLE 4510
GOSSIP GIRL 2950
SUPERNATURAL 2880
GAME, THE 2550
BEAUTY AND THE GEEK-2 2480
REAPER 2460
EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS 2320
GIRLFRIENDS 2170
ALIENS IN AMERICA 1990
AMERICA'S TOP MODEL-3-ENC 1560
LIFE IS WILD 1370
ALIENS IN AMERICA-SUN 1130
CW NOW 900
Overall network averages for November 12-18,2007 compared to February 3-9, 2003:
2003 2008
CBS: 13.3 11.9 -10%
NBC 12.4 8.3 -33
ABC 11.8 10.4 -11
Fox 10.6 8.6 -19
WB/U 4.2 2.9 -31
NBC has lost more than the CW, but it started from a much higher place. The drops for both are concerning. Fox's losses are cyclical based on the hot reality show of the moment (then it was Joe Millionaire). ABC actually posted a big gain if you take out the one-time 2003 ratings for that 20/20 Michael Jackson special (+28%)
That week in February, the UPN and WB had 11 series over 4 million viewers. The CW had 3. And this was before ANTM came into play.
CW Wednesday & Friday are UP from UPN/WB Wed. and Fri. But WB (mostly) flunked their viewership #s.
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| Posts: 167 | Location: The CW Headquarters | Registered: 05 January 2008 | |
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quote: Originally posted by dumont:
If one looks to the drop-offs of the 05-06 season (and goes back further to the 00-01 season,
Thanks for the quality data, Dumont. A few comments: 1. I think it supports my claim that the dropoff from WB years ago to CW is pretty typical of broadcast TV in general. 2. Neither of the years for WB shows a 5 million viewer average. Was there ever a point where WB's (or UPN's) weekly average was that high? If so, what was the total weekly number of primetime hours they programmed at that time? 3. I don't really think it is fair to lump MNTV into the mix since they really are a brand new network. I think comparing CW to WB or UPN is fair (and yes, the two networks were close to the same despite the pro-WB bias in this forum), but MNTV doesn't really have any legacy with either of the former networks. They are brand new. |
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quote: Originally posted by Kevin Smith:
No final rating for thursday are available yet ?
Because of Good Friday, Thursday finals won't be out until Monday.
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| Posts: 3527 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 21 September 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Obveeus:
3. I don't really think it is fair to lump MNTV into the mix since they really are a brand new network. I think comparing CW to WB or UPN is fair (and yes, the two networks were close to the same despite the pro-WB bias in this forum), but MNTV doesn't really have any legacy with either of the former networks. They are brand new.
The reason I always compare MyNetworkTV to UPN numbers is that MNT was formed with approximately 2/3rds former UPN affiliates and 1/3 former WB affiliates (for The CW, it is the reverse). However, you are correct in pointing out that they were essentially a brand-new start-up network. All of the WB-UPN programming and talent pool went to the new network, and MNT was forced to start from scratch with new programming (the telenovellas) and a brand new management team. With the transfer of WWE Smackdown from The CW to MNT, this will become the first UPN program to be picked up by MNT, two years after the start-up. To date, not a single WB program has made the transfer over to MNT (there have been two FOX Reality shared productions, and one NBC encore series). |
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quote: Miss Guided (ABC)
8:00 p.m. – Viewers: 6.34 million (#4), A18-49: 2.1/ 7 (#2t) – time period premiere
8:30 p.m. – Viewers: 6.34 million (#4), A18-49: 2.3/ 7 (#3)
I disagree anout Miss/Guided being labeled a loser. It kept 100% of its viewers and actually built on its demo numbers in the 2nd half-hour. Almost unheard of in a new show in its 2nd and 3rd episodes. Considering the 1st episode was such a weird scheduling decision, I consider these numbers very good. Viewers liked what they saw and stuck around for more -- I for one am hooked and love this show. It is a perfect companion to SW and is likely to hold or build on SW's numbers if paired together. I would not and did not expect it to perform any better than it did on its own on Thursday. Compare these results to the last network comedy to premiere, The Return of Jezebel James which had arguably more promotion: 3.11 million viewers and a 1.1/ 4 in the demo... Yes, Miss/Guided has found an audience, and is loved by both critics and viewers alike. |
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quote: Originally posted by Chimera: quote: Miss Guided (ABC)
8:00 p.m. – Viewers: 6.34 million (#4), A18-49: 2.1/ 7 (#2t) – time period premiere
8:30 p.m. – Viewers: 6.34 million (#4), A18-49: 2.3/ 7 (#3)
I disagree anout Miss/Guided being labeled a loser. It kept 100% of its viewers and actually built on its demo numbers in the 2nd half-hour. Almost unheard of in a new show in its 2nd and 3rd episodes. Considering the 1st episode was such a weird scheduling decision, I consider these numbers very good. Viewers liked what they saw and stuck around for more -- I for one am hooked and love this show. It is a perfect companion to SW and is likely to hold or build on SW's numbers if paired together. I would not and did not expect it to perform any better than it did on its own on Thursday. Compare these results to the last network comedy to premiere, The Return of Jezebel James which had arguably more promotion: 3.11 million viewers and a 1.1/ 4 in the demo... Yes, Miss/Guided has found an audience, and is loved by both critics and viewers alike.
Miss/Guided is a loser, no matter how you spin it. its little growth in the 2nd half hour would be attributed to the later time period (higher HUT levels) than anything else. The 6.34 million is only a little better than the repeats of LOST had been drawing. Not good for a NEW episode program. Compairing it to The Return of Jezebel James is more about the spin. TRJJ was shipped of to die, from the start, on FOX Fridays. There was no audience there to begin with for the show. The Quality may be there for M/G, but the ratings were not.
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| Posts: 15415 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 20 September 2006 | |
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Thursday original finals and network averages
SHOW/NET HH A18-49 Viewers A18-34
ABC 5.4/9 3.0/9 8,403,000
CBS 5.6/10 3.4/10 8,758,000
NBC 5.9/10 2.8/8 8,690,000
FOX 4.6/8 2.4/7 7,911,000
CW 2.1/3 1.3/4 3,190,000 1.1/4
MISS GUIDED (8pm) 4.2/8 2.1/7 6,280,000
MISS GUIDED (8:30pm) 4.3/7 2.3/7 6,309,000
LOST 7.0/11 4.6/12 11,461,000
ELI STONE (10:02pm) 4.7/8 2.3/7 7,316,000
NCAA BASKETBALL (7pm, 163 minutes) 5.2/10 3.1/11 8,176,000
NCAA BASKETBALL (9:43pm, 137 minutes) 5.1/9 3.1/9 7,627,000
DEAL OR NO DEAL 6.6/11 2.6/8 10,259,000
CELEBRITY APPRENTICE 5.9/9 3.2/8 8,830,000
LIPSTICK JUNGLE (10:01pm) 5.0/9 2.6/7 6,949,000
SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER 4.5/8 2.2/7 7,456,000
DON'T FORGET THE LYRICS 4.8/8 2.7/7 8,366,000
SMALLVILLE 2.3/4 1.4/4 3,442,000 1.5/5
REAPER 1.9/3 1.2/3 2,939,000 0.8/2
MAKE ME A SUPERMODEL 0.7/1 0.5/2 938,000
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| Posts: 3527 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 21 September 2006 | |
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