Originally posted by mushu_jj: If there's one thing NBC is still good at its promotion. Their ability to get people to still check them out(Bionic Woman and Life were great examples this past fall) even when their overall numbers suck is a testament to their promotions department.
Actually, I think NBC has difficulty promoting. Getting viewers to BIONIC WOMAN was more about that name than anything NBC did, and LIFE just went along for the ride. In fact, the promotion of LIFE was widely panned.
Something like HEROES was so different that it wasn't surprising news of it reached the mass audience. MEDIUM came along at a time just before NBC really began to slide.
Consider though the relatively modest premiere of CHUCK this year and the weak numbers for KIDNAPPED the year before.
And while I am not suggesting FNL should get or "deserves" better numbers, I can promise you that you don't need to know much about marketing to realize that its promoters missed the boat.
With its wide variety of shows, promotion is actually setup to be difficult. Any number of its shows are difficult to promote on any one show. They have no core genre. If there is a core audience, it is all over the map.
I totally agree with your assesment, Bruce. NBC can't even promote their established shows well. Heck, they don't even promote their more established shows e.g. Medium.
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Also, I think people here focus way too much on ratings. Demos and critical acclaim have a high appeal to advertisers. I've mentioned this before, but The Office, 30 Rock, FNL, and The Celebrity Apprentice all do well among affluent viewers. The Office and Heroes get high demos among adults 18-49; even Chuck did well with young audiences. Lipstick Jungle is NBC's only series that attracts high amounts of female audiences, which is probably why its returning. With the DirectTV deal, NBC can have FNL air, and even with really low ratings, it wont matter, because they'll please critics and its small fanbase without losing any money.
There comes a point when even being succesfull with affluent viewers isn't enough of a reason for renewal. In my opinion 30 Rock and FNL have reached that point. I don't even see how the partnership with Direct TV will help FNL in the long term. Direct TV hopes to get a major boost of new subscribers but the majority of people will just wait for the reruns on NBC. This may well be the last season of FNL and it would have managed to drag down Life with it.
On the other hand Heroes, The Office and the Celebrity Apprentice had good ratings to back up with the high demos and succes with affluent viewers.
I agree that there comes a point in time that having affluent viewers isnt enough, but it makes sense for NBC to keep shows like 30 Rock and FNL, when those are the only scripted shows (besides The Office) that are attracting those audiences. And NBC isnt going to get rid of two of their most critically acclaimed shows that easily; I'm sure NBC would kill for some of their shows to be high in the ratings as some of CBS's show, but CBS would probably kill to have critics and awards actually acknowledge their network.
And during the last few seasons, NBC has been all over the map with different kinds of dramas, but it looks like they are going with heavily male targeted shows, with either action, adventure, and/or scifi elements. Lipstick Jungle seems to be the most misplaced show on their network, but I guess NBC sees potential in the series, which is why they are airing it after DOND.
NBC should have a huge platform to promote their new and returning shows with the Olympics and the Superbowl. And to have both of those in one year is pretty amazing. So if the net is still in 4th place by the end of the 2008-2009 season, then its completely their fought.
Originally posted by Legends: I agree that there comes a point in time that having affluent viewers isnt enough, but it makes sense for NBC to keep shows like 30 Rock and FNL, when those are the only scripted shows (besides The Office) that are attracting those audiences.
NBC still has a bunch of scripted shows that perform better in the demo than 30 Rock: L&O:SVU, L&O, ER, Heroes, Medium, ...even shows like Chuck and Earl. How much farther down the pay scale do those viewers have to be before the tiny number of affluent 18-49 people watching 30 Rock or the microscopic number watching FNL matter more?
I dont think its reached the limit when FNL and 30 Rock dont deserve to be on. If you look at Arrested Development and Veronica Mars, they were both on for three years and amazingly critically acclaimed, but no one watched. I feel that both shows are still pretty young, and if it comes to the point that the ratings are just too low, NBC will cancel them just like FOX and The CW did with Arrested Development and Veronica Mars.
Also, no one is saying that the affluent viewers that FNL and 30 Rock have matter more then the 18-49 demos that a series like Heroes might get, but just that those are apart of the reason why they're being kept on air. Advertisers are going to want to advertise their products to richer audiences and The Office, The Celebrity Apprentice, 30 Rock, and FNL are the only NBC shows that attract large affluent viewers.
If you go to the NBC Primetime 2008-2009 schedule on NBC's site and click on upcoming new shows, you will see Blue Blood. It looks like it was picked up, just not placed on the schedule yet. My guess is it will replace either Life or Lipstick Jungle in the lineup (which ever one does worse right off the bat).
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Originally posted by sickofitall: I dont know why people think Blue Blood is picked up. There has been no mention of it at all anywhere. Its too bad cause Ive seen it and its GREAT
I also listened to Marcs Pod cast and disagree with him on 80% of what he said. Lipstick Jungle, FNL, Life are on life support. I think LJ actually does below a 2.0 in the demo. I mean how long are they going to keep FNL on ? Really. It's O.K. but people at NBC talk about it like it's Chekhov! NO ONE WATCHES IT!!!!!!!! It's television. It's about selling stuff. No one sees, no one buys. No one buys, cancel show. Same w the Office,it's O.K. but come on! lets make a spin off and add a half hour.Brilliant programming. It's good that Silverman is rich and doesn't need the job. CAUSE HE AIN'T GONNA HAVE IT FOR LONG. he can drive out the lot in the KIT Car after its canceled after ep 2. Slater I get, give it a shot. Smilovac is a good writer. Philanthropist????????? Crusoe??? zzzzzzzzz oh sorry I fell asleep. I'm happy that the CW and maybe Lifetime will finally move ahead of NBC.
Originally posted by Legends: I dont think its reached the limit when FNL and 30 Rock dont deserve to be on. If you look at Arrested Development and Veronica Mars, they were both on for three years and amazingly critically acclaimed, but no one watched. I feel that both shows are still pretty young, and if it comes to the point that the ratings are just too low, NBC will cancel them just like FOX and The CW did with Arrested Development and Veronica Mars.
Also, no one is saying that the affluent viewers that FNL and 30 Rock have matter more then the 18-49 demos that a series like Heroes might get, but just that those are apart of the reason why they're being kept on air. Advertisers are going to want to advertise their products to richer audiences and The Office, The Celebrity Apprentice, 30 Rock, and FNL are the only NBC shows that attract large affluent viewers.
I'm not sure about FNL and 30 Rock, but I know that Veronica Mars and Arrested Development both generated some nice money with DVD sales. I know that Veronica Mars made a nice bit of chance on iTunes. I'm sure if Arrested Development was given the same opportunity it would have too. If they aren't makeing money that way then I think that it just comes down to Zucker (like whomever was keeping Til Death around on FOX) playing favorites.
Originally posted by Legends: I dont think its reached the limit when FNL and 30 Rock dont deserve to be on. If you look at Arrested Development and Veronica Mars, they were both on for three years and amazingly critically acclaimed, but no one watched. I feel that both shows are still pretty young, and if it comes to the point that the ratings are just too low, NBC will cancel them just like FOX and The CW did with Arrested Development and Veronica Mars.
Also, no one is saying that the affluent viewers that FNL and 30 Rock have matter more then the 18-49 demos that a series like Heroes might get, but just that those are apart of the reason why they're being kept on air. Advertisers are going to want to advertise their products to richer audiences and The Office, The Celebrity Apprentice, 30 Rock, and FNL are the only NBC shows that attract large affluent viewers.
I'm not sure about FNL and 30 Rock, but I know that Veronica Mars and Arrested Development both generated some nice money with DVD sales. I know that Veronica Mars made a nice bit of chance on iTunes. I'm sure if Arrested Development was given the same opportunity it would have too. If they aren't makeing money that way then I think that it just comes down to Zucker (like whomever was keeping Til Death around on FOX) playing favorites.
The problem is that iTunes sales are not even close to enough to justify the ratings. Ditto for the DVDs. Neither one was a Family Guy in that department.
Originally posted by Obveeus: Singing Bee is supposed to be back this summer. Like the primetime Family Feud set to air this summer, they didn't make it onto NBC's 52 week schedule, so they must have been 'pre- cancelled'.
With the Family Feud, they are saying, it will be an celebrity edition, and Al Roker might be hosting.
I didn't know where to post my question but since we are discussing renewals in this topic, I figured it will be a good place to post it in here.
So, here I go:
I'm kind of new with the workings of US networks because I'm from Europe and the TV landscape in Europe is completally different than in the US. Does having a succes abroad have an impact in the decision of renewing a show or is ONLY having success in the US of importance?
I'm asking this because a lot of US shows are showing here and I would like to know if this will help some of my favourites shows chances at renewal.
Thanks.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: CaseyM,
If a TV show is making a lot of money in overseas syndication or DVD sales or itunes or whatever other formet, it gives the studio the ability to lower the license fee to the network. Sometimes, a lower license fee can extend a TV show's life on firstrun network TV (see ER, According to Jim, and likey Scrubs). Still, at some point, the networks won't want to keep airing a show even if it becomes virtually free for them to do so.
Originally posted by Obveeus: If a TV show is making a lot of money in overseas syndication or DVD sales or itunes or whatever other formet, it gives the studio the ability to lower the license fee to the network. Sometimes, a lower license fee can extend a TV show's life on firstrun network TV (see ER, According to Jim, and likey Scrubs). Still, at some point, the networks won't want to keep airing a show even if it becomes virtually free for them to do so.
Originally posted by Justin: Is Kath & Kim a multi camera comedy with a laugh track, or are we going to see yet another unsuccessful single cam? Anybody know?
